# NFL offseason discussion (up to but not including draft) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 22, 2008, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702 "2008-02-22T07:02:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/601 "2008-04-14T12:55:56Z")
I’d be up for any of those. Especially since I can’t get into the SDMB keeper league ☹ ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/602 "2008-04-14T14:05:45Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] Not much draft talk this year, unless I missed a thread. I was reading last year’s [draft thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=418472) to see how the predictions were in hindsight. [/QUOTE] It’s not time yet; note that the linked thread was created the day before the draft. I was planning on creating a draft-specific thread sometime during the week leading up to the draft, though obviously anyone is free to start one anytime if they’re itching for discussion. It is ironic that a Browns fan would be eager to talk draft this year. heh. But go nuts if you’d like. As for the various thread ideas, I’m down for any and/or all of them. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/603 "2008-04-14T15:14:35Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] Also, to anyone who thought the Browns were giving away a top 5 pick when they traded their 2008 first rounder: Ha-ha. Especially Dallas fans who were on the Browns boards the day after talking about how we just gave them the #1 overall so they could take McFadden. F Dallas fans in the A with a W which is R H. [/quote] With the Brown’s nice season and the incredible weakness at QB in this year’s draft, that trade is looking even better. Of course all bets are off if Quinn sucks, but more and more it’s looking like a great move. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/604 "2008-04-14T15:16:32Z")
[QUOTE=Hamlet] With the Brown’s nice season and the incredible weakness at QB in this year’s draft, that trade is looking even better. Of course all bets are off if Quinn sucks, but more and more it’s looking like a great move. [/QUOTE] Except that they _have_ a quarterback now. How much better could the team be if instead of trading the pick they were getting Vernon Gholston in the draft? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/605 "2008-04-14T15:20:52Z")
Seriously, Phil Savage is the man. I’m not saying that as a homer - I’m not blind to flaws in a front office. I’m pretty down on Romeo, and I accurately predicted (although not the degree) to which the Cleveland offense would improve (in part) due to the forced jettisoning Romeo’s buddy as offensive coordinator, and I was openly critical of both of them (Romeo and Carthon) for quite a while before that. Phil has drafted pretty well, he’s made savvy trades, he’s surprisingly honest and open with the media - he seems like the kind of guy you could knock back some beers with while talking football. I’ve become generally confident that when a trade goes down, it was either mutually beneficial or Phil got the better of it. He’s quickly becoming one of the best in the business. He never had the chance to pick his coach, though. The owner and the ex-team president picked Savage and Crennel in essentially the same search. As Phil takes more power over the team and takes it away from Romeo, the team is getting better. Edit: [QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Except that they _have_ a quarterback now. How much better could the team be if instead of trading the pick they were getting Vernon Gholston in the draft? [/QUOTE] I’m not convinced that it’s necesarily the worst thing ever to have two good quarterbacks, as it seems the perception is. Teams can end their season with an injury to a QB. Quinn may still be the better quarterback between the two. And we’d be drafting #22 this year - from what I hear, there’s no realistic chance that we’d land Gholston there. Quinn comes pretty cheap - as he was holding out for incentives in his contract, he ironically lost his shot at the starting job. Those incentives tied him starting to big pay. Without starting, he’s a very cheap, yet seemingly very skilled, backup. Besides, if both QBs look good again this year, they have the option of trading one and getting some of that value back. As it is, I’m fine with having two quarterbacks. Teams have scary little depth at the most important position. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/606 "2008-04-14T15:27:00Z")
Rumors are a-flyin’ as there’s talk from the Dallas media that the Cowboys want to trade for Roy Williams. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/607 "2008-04-14T15:36:42Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] Rumors are a-flyin’ as there’s talk from the Dallas media that the Cowboys want to trade for Roy Williams. [/QUOTE] …but were stymied by a little-known 2006 ruling of the NFL Management Council that said, “only one Roy Williams per team”. > [@](#): > > I’m not convinced that it’s necesarily the worst thing ever to have two good quarterbacks, as it seems the perception is. Teams can end their season with an injury to a QB. > > Quinn may still be the better quarterback between the two. Yes, but he’s effectively a rookie. You don’t know if he _is_ a good quarterback; in fact, I’ll give him one chance in five of ever having a better statistical season than Anderson did in '07. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/608 "2008-04-14T15:44:02Z")
I can only go by what I’ve seen. He looked fantastic in preseason - and I know people talk down the value of preseason, but if you can’t judge how your players perform there, what use is it? His first two appearances were against future grocery baggers, but he played Denver’s first string defense and looked remarkably good. He only played one series of the regular season, but he looked good there too - he had two dropped passes that were very catchable to make his stats look mediocre. My concern now is that there won’t be a real competition in training camp because of the difference in their contracts. I have no bias in who should start - I just want the best guy out there. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/609 "2008-04-14T15:47:56Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] My concern now is that there won’t be a real competition in training camp because of the difference in their contracts. I have no bias in who should start - I just want the best guy out there. [/QUOTE] If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/610 "2008-04-14T15:50:22Z")
It may be. Anderson’s performance declined towards the end of the season (the weather didn’t help, I’m sure, he clearly played worse) mostly due to teams adjusting to take away his strengths and inadequate counter-adjusting by the Browns offensive staff (Or Anderson’s inability to improve upon his weaknesses). He’s a very boom or bust guy. A Favreian gunslinger type. As a first year starter, though, very impressive. If he can improve, he’ll be a good one. No one’s job should be exempt from a legitimate competition come camp time, though. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/611 "2008-04-14T16:39:24Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Except that they _have_ a quarterback now. [/quote] If Brady Quinn were in this draft, would the be any question whatsoever that he would be the first pick by the Dolphins? In my view, he’s a helluva lot better prospect than Matt Ryan, let alone any of the other QB’s in this draft. So, even if he sits for awhile, he’s a good pick. > [@Really](#): > > How much better could the team be if instead of trading the pick they were getting Vernon Gholston in the draft? If Gholston falls to 22, I’ll eat his jock strap. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/612 "2008-04-14T16:48:52Z")
[QUOTE=Hamlet] If Brady Quinn were in this draft, would the be any question whatsoever that he would be the first pick by the Dolphins? [/QUOTE] Er… yes? _Everyone_ passed on Quinn, remember? Including the Browns the first time around. It wasn’t just the 'Fins. You’re right about Gholston, though. I got the Cowboys’ picks mixed up; I was thinking the Browns would have been drafting with the earlier one (#7?) ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/613 "2008-04-14T16:54:29Z")
I am glad you guys are keeping this thread alive. I love NFL football, and hate this time of the year after College Hoops is over, no football, baseball’s just starting and I could give a rat’s about the rest of the sports. I wanted to mention after reading through this thread again that I would be down for us having some games, fantasy, etc. We could do our own Yahoo free league or something. I hope the Bengals get Sedrick Ellis! ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/614 "2008-04-14T17:00:01Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Er… yes? _Everyone_ passed on Quinn, remember? Including the Browns the first time around. It wasn’t just the 'Fins. [/quote] The Fins had just given up a fifth (could have been a fourth) round pick (I think) for Trent Green, who was their starter and going to be their QB. They didn’t have the need they do now. And, while the other teams passed on him, I cannot see the Dolphins, Atlanta, Baltimore, and maybe the Jets or Chiefs, passing on him in if he went in this draft. It’s a horrible year if you’re looking for a potential franchise QB. There is no way the Browns would be able to get Quinn even as a backup, at 22 this year. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/615 "2008-04-14T17:02:54Z")
[QUOTE=Hamlet] The Fins had just given up a fifth (could have been a fourth) round pick (I think) for Trent Green, who was their starter and going to be their QB. They didn’t have the need they do now. And, while the other teams passed on him, I cannot see the Dolphins, Atlanta, Baltimore, and maybe the Jets or Chiefs, passing on him in if he went in this draft. It’s a horrible year if you’re looking for a potential franchise QB. There is no way the Browns would be able to get Quinn even as a backup, at 22 this year. [/QUOTE] Pfft. If Brian Brohm had come out last year he would have been picked ahead of Quinn, no doubt. He stayed in school for a year and put up even better numbers, yet he’s projected as a second-round pick. Quinn wasn’t nearly as highly-regarded last year. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/616 "2008-04-14T18:00:02Z")
Brohm was the number one quarterback last year if I remember right, wasn’t he? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/617 "2008-04-15T01:22:37Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Pfft. If Brian Brohm had come out last year he would have been picked ahead of Quinn, no doubt. He stayed in school for a year and put up even better numbers, yet he’s projected as a second-round pick. Quinn wasn’t nearly as highly-regarded last year. [/QUOTE] Something doesn’t add up. The draft class this year is considered weaker at the top, and weaker at QB, so how would Brohm drop a round after a good year in a much more favorable draft? [QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil] I wanted to mention after reading through this thread again that I would be down for us having some games, fantasy, etc. We could do our own Yahoo free league or something. [/QUOTE] We do do all that stuff - I was just thinking of adding yet even more SDMB NFL related stuff. There are several fantasy leagues (of the two I run, the main one has a waiting list of sorts and may not have open slots depending on how many people re-up, but we also did an auction draft with 8 people that could easily expand to 10 or 12), 3 pick 'em leagues (straight up, against the spread, and confidence points), a survival league, and a salary cap league (also yahoo). All of those but the fantasy leagues are the more the merrier, so you’re welcome to sign up for them all. The competitive sports betting, and yardage pools would be new this year if there was enough interest to run them. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/618 "2008-04-15T01:33:54Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] Something doesn’t add up. The draft class this year is considered weaker at the top, and weaker at QB, so how would Brohm drop a round after a good year in a much more favorable draft? [/QUOTE] I could be misremembering, but I recall Brohm as being above or close to Quinn in people’s minds, and he was _certainly_ expected to go at the top of the 1st Round heading into '07. As for what changed, his team went from 12-1 in 2006 to 6-6 last year, and, I suspect, people are reading too much into that. Prediction: just like last year, the 2nd QB taken in the draft (Quinn, Brohm) will have a significantly better career than the 1st (Russell, Ryan). ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/619 "2008-04-15T01:41:46Z")
Yay. > [@Rotoworld](#): > > The NFL will release its full schedule of regular season games for 2008 on Tuesday. > > Each teams’ opponents are already known, but the times and dates will finally become available. Based on the record of their 2007 opponents, the Steelers’ schedule has been rated the toughest of all 32 teams. Steeler’s schedule: NFC East AFC South Balt/Cinc/Cleve x2 New England San Diego Of course, the whole AFC North shares everything but the NE and SD games. The Browns get Buffalo and Denver instead. But Cleveland has Pittsburgh twice on their schedule, whereas Pittsburgh “gets to play” Cleveland twice. That’ll be the common perception, anyway, making it look like the Browns may be somewhere near tied for the hardest schedule. I think we’ll split the series, each team winning at home. The Browns may be the better team in '08, but the fact that Pitt plays NE and SD while Cleveland plays Buf and Den gives Cleveland a substantial advantage. The division winner of the AFC North has a serious chance of being 8-8 or 9-7 with that schedule. No wildcard coming out of this division. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/620 "2008-04-15T02:40:00Z")
Here’s [Draft Countdown’s](http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraft.html) most recent Mock Draft (as of April 11th) and I have to say I’m having a hard time arguing with any of those predictions in the top 16. Obviously the #1 pick is still in a lot of doubt but he makes a pretty compelling argument for Jake Long. Even if the Dolphins go with the QB Ryan or the other Long I think the top 5 players will remain the same in a different order. My opinion on Ryan Clady has totally changed and I think he’s going to be a bust. Watching what video I have he just doesn’t look like a guy who will be able to handle the athletes at the pro level and his footwork and intensity are below average. I do think the Broncos will take him because he fits their scheme better than the others, except maybe Albert. I hope the Bears pick the right guy of the remaining tackles. Albert, Otah and Williams will all potentially be there and the odds are decent that they’ll get their choice of the group. I’m leaning towards Albert simply because we need help at both Guard and Tackle and his versatility would be a asset. Williams is the least polished run blocker and that makes him last on my list. It seems that this guy expects a big run on QBs at the top of the second round and I happen to agree. I’ve heard the same predictions from the ESPN guys as well. As a result my hopes for Flacco will probably rest on the minuscule chance that the Bears will trade up for the first time in memory. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702.md?page=32)