NFL Offseason - Free Agency through Minicamps

Lion’s get Ngata and a 7th round pick and the Ravens get 4th and 5th round picks this year according theDetroit News

We traded Suh, “a reminder that sometimes it’s okay to kill another man so long as he’s wearing a helmet or tights” and replaced him with a wonderful human being. Fortunately he seems to be a wonderful human being who can play. I was beginning to think the Lion’s building themselves into a cap corner on Suh was just classic mismanagement. OKay I still think that. Sometimes you get lucky.

Parody “Pure Michigan” promotional spot describing what Suh meant to Lion’s fans (NSFW)

I really like the Colts additions. Gore and Johnson is a huge upgrade over Wayne and Bradshaw. Herremans, Cole and Langford are nice additions and really the only loss that I’d sweat is Corey Redding.

Reggie Bush to San Fransisco is actually a nice fit on both sides. Bush gets to play on real grass in a warm climate. The Niners get a cheaper replacement for Gore and the rest of the midgets on the roster. He pairs well with Hyde for a nice 1-2 punch on a shoestring budget. I’d rather have this than what the Bears have in a single overpaid RB who’s well rounded but ultimately average at everything. I am slightly less excited about the exchange of Stevie Johnson for Torrey Smith. It’s not that Johnson was great but I think Smith with flounder with Kaep chucking balls to him instead of Flacco’s sweet deep fades.

Chip Kelly is now denying any interest in Mariotta. I think this is pure pragmatism, he’d love to have the guy but knows it’s a bad investment to trade up for him, at least into the top 5. We’ll see if that opinion changes should Mariotta slip into the 5-15 range.

The Bears and Ryan Pace have finally admitted that Cutler, for better or worse, is the guy. They clearly shopped the hell out of him but I’m glad they didn’t choose to eat that contract and/or give him away for nothing. People rag on him for lots of reasons, but I stand by the assertion that he’s not been the Bears biggest problem in the last couple seasons. It’s been the defense. I’m now doubting that you can win a Super Bowl with Cutler, but I’ll be interested to see what happens now that he has the most competent coaching staff he’s had in a decade. I’m skeptical, but maybe the Bears shopping him (and no one biting) and a new sense of accountability will somehow change how he handles the offense. I’d definitely rather be rolling with Cutler than being in the Bills, Jets, Texans, Browns, Redskins, Titans, Niners and Cardinals etc. shoes.

In other Bears news, they added to the defense with McPhee and Rolle, and look to be targeting another S in Ron Parker. The big move on offense is Eddie Royal which feels like a great compliment. They parted ways with Conte, Briggs, Paea and Marshall. They supposedly are out of the running for Pot Roast due to his contract demands.

I feel bad for the Buccaneers. Lovie is running that thing into the ground in record time. When his big targets on defense are resigning Major Wright and adding Chris Conte while cutting Michael Johnson you know you have issues.

Derrelle Revis sure knows how to make money. Frankly I’m shocked that he left New England. I’m not sure what the difference in the money was, or even if the Pats offered a long term deal, but I’d have thought Revis would love to play out the next 2 or 3 seasons on a contender. Seems like winning one ring was enough for him. He checked that box, so time to go get more money. He’s been quoted as saying some silly shit about “going home” but that’s just spin, the guy was never satisfied or happy in NYC. He held out like every year and was never a vocal leader or the face of the franchise.

The Jets shored up the team by fleecing the Bears for Marshall, cutting bait on Harvin, dumping CJ½K, bringing back Pace, Babin, Harris on defense and Powell on offense and adding Skrine and Carpenter as FAs. I love all of these moves, really well done. But they also brought in Fitzpatrick to compete with Geno and that my friends is desperation. I expect the Jets to grab Mariotta if he’s there and that would make for a pretty impressive offseason - assuming their cap isn’t getting gutted.

The Steelers defense is going to be practically unrecognizable. Keisel, Worilds, Harrison, Polamalu, LeBeau all gone. I don’t see the next couple years going well for them.

Aside from franchising JPP and signing Shane Vereen they Giants haven’t done much of anything.

The Super Bowl champs are bleeding badly. Vereen and Revis gone, paying big money to keep McCourty (he’s worth it) and franchising Gostkowski (huh?) and releasing Browner and Wilfork. They get the benefit of the doubt here, but they have some tough holes to fill now.

The next big shoe to drop is DeMarco Murray. Rumor is the Eagles are in the lead but I have to imagine that they are just trying to muddy the waters for Dallas, no way the dump McCoy due to salary issues and replace him with Murray. Though getting screwed on Gore might trigger an overreaction.

Not a lot of wild news elsewhere in the NFC Norris. The Pack have retained Cobb and Bulaga. Dumped a couple of LBs in Hawk and Jones. No free agents as usual, and I expect they to win the division and fail in the playoffs for the umpteenth time. The Lions recovered nicely from the Suh defection (idiotic contract by the Dolphins, totally see this playing out like Haynesworth 2.0) by trading for Ngata. they lost Bush but that won’t hurt them. Nothing else much happening there. The Vikings converted Cassel into a couple draft picks and have basically done nothing else. Still waiting to see what happens with AP, but he’s almost certainly gone.

One of the most perplexing contracts I’ve seen doled out is the one for Jeremy Maclin. Nice player and all, but definitely not $11M/year nice.

The 2 huge trades are probably worth their own post. I think both the Eagles and Saints got completely fleeced. The Bradford for Foles move is weird, but I can understand it. I don’t really understand why they had to send a 2nd rounder back to the Rams. They were doing the Rams a favor by letting them get younger and cheaper at QB. Similarly I have no idea why the Saints traded Jimmy Graham. The contract they gave out causes so much dead money they don’t really gain anything this year by trading him. They have to pay Unger who is a good player, and they have to pay another 1st round salary by getting that pick back.

As a Bears fan I’m trying to figure out what I can learn about Ryan Pace in the wake of this Saints disaster. How responsible is he for this mess and did he abandon ship after helping make that cap mess? Would the Saints have gotten fleeced like this is Pace were still there? Are there any cap casualties that the Bears will try and sign once the Saints start cutting guys in earnest?

Whew…that post got long.

As #1 on the ragging on Cutler list, I don’t think I’ve ever said he, as a player, is the biggest reason they’ve lost (maybe he’s the reason for a loss here or there, but not the piling up of the losses). Clearly their defense has been horrible and the complete lack of drafting and depth are the two biggest contributors to the Bears languishing in mediocrity.

But, as I’ve pointed out countless times, while Cutler as a player may not be the biggest reason, Cutler as an asset has been a horrible decision for the Bears. The biggest reason the defense went from great to horrible in such a short amount of time and the complete lack of depth and talent on the roster, was because of the price to obtain Cutler and the cost of surrounding him with the talent he wants (and needs) to be successful. The Bears went all in on Cutler, mortgaging draft picks, overpaying him, and getting him Pro Bowl receivers and an O line to block for him. And it didn’t work. Cutler, as a player, is simply over-rated. But it’s the price of having Cutler on your team is what really doomed the Bears. And I’m so very glad they did it.

You can keep saying it, that doesn’t make it true. Here’s the Bears’ drafts since the Cutler trade.


Year	No.	Round	Pick	Player	Name	Position	College
2014	1	1	14	14	Kyle Fuller	DB	Virginia Tech
 	2	2	19	51	Ego Ferguson	DT	Louisiana State
 	3	3	18	82	Will Sutton	DT	Arizona State
 	4	4	17	117	Ka'Deem Carey	RB	Arizona
 	5	4	31	131	Brock Vereen	DB	Minnesota
 	6	6	7	183	David Fales	QB	San Jose State
 	7	6	15	191	Pat O'Donnell	P	Miami (FL)
 	8	7	31	246	Charles Leno Jr.	T	Boise State
2013	1	1	20	20	Kyle Long	G	Oregon
 	2	2	18	50	Jon Bostic	LB	Florida
 	3	4	20	117	Khaseem Greene	LB	Rutgers
 	4	5	30	163	Jordan Mills	T	Louisiana Tech
 	5	6	20	188	Cornelius Washington	LB	Georgia
 	6	7	30	236	Marquess Wilson	WR	Washington State
2012	1	1	19	19	Shea McClellin	DE	Boise State
 	2	2	13	45	Alshon Jeffery	WR	South Carolina
 	3	3	16	79	Brandon Hardin	DB	Oregon State
 	4	4	16	111	Evan Rodriguez	TE	Temple
 	5	6	14	184	Isaiah Frey	DB	Nevada
 	6	7	13	220	Greg McCoy	DB	Texas Christian
2011	1	1	29	29	Gabe Carimi	T	Wisconsin
 	2	2	21	53	Stephen Paea	DT	Oregon State
 	3	3	29	93	Chris Conte	DB	California
 	4	5	29	160	Nathan Enderle	QB	Idaho
 	5	6	30	195	James Thomas	LB	West Virginia
2010s	1	7	0	0	Harvey Unga	RB	Brigham Young
2010	1	3	11	75	Major Wright	DB	Florida
 	2	4	11	109	Corey Wootton	DE	Northwestern
 	3	5	10	141	Joshua Moore	DB	Kansas State
 	4	6	12	181	Dan LeFevour	QB	Central Michigan
 	5	7	11	218	J'marcus Webb	T	West Texas State
2009	1	3	4	68	Jarron Gilbert	DE	San Jose State
 	2	3	35	99	Juaquin Iglesias	WR	Oklahoma
 	3	4	5	105	Henry Melton	DE	Texas
 	4	4	19	119	D.J. Moore	DB	Vanderbilt
 	5	5	4	140	Johnny Knox	WR	Abilene Christian
 	6	5	18	154	Marcus Freeman	LB	Ohio State
 	7	6	17	190	Al Afalava	DB	Oregon State
 	8	7	37	246	Lance Louis	G	San Diego State
 	9	7	42	251	Derek Kinder	WR	Pittsburgh

TL;DR version: Here’s the list of Bears draft picks that were even marginally successful since the trade.

2009: Melton, Knox - both frequently injured, both gone
2010: Wootten - frequently injured, gone
2011: Paea - solid player, gone this year due to scheme change
2012: Jeffery - star
2013: Long, Wilson - 1 star, 1 injury red shirt
2014: Fuller, Ferguson, O’Donnell - 3 productive rookies plus Wilson, jury’s still out

That right there is pathetic and has everything to do with why the Bears are mediocre.

Culter cost the Bears two 1st round draft picks (plus a 3-for-5 swap). Marshall cost the Bears 2 3rd round draft picks, if you want to call that part of “keeping cutler happy” so be it. I’m not aware of any other areas where the Bears conceded something to “support” Cutler, they built the offensive line but it’s ridiculous to think they would not have done that anyways.

So, let’s play this out and assume the Bears hit absolute home runs with those 4 picks they traded away. Two of the picks they need to spend on a quality rookie QB and #1 WR to replace Cutler and Marshall. No QBs worth a shit were drafted after their slots in 2009 or 2010, the only guys left in the league are - wait for it - Jimmy Clausen and Joe Webb. So, let’s give them Jeremy Maclin in 2009. In 2012 when the first Brandon Marshall pick would have been they could have gotten Russell Wilson or Nick Foles, obviously Wilson is the home run. Let’s imagine that the other 2 picks are Pro Bowl defenders.

In that scenario, which is as idealized as possible, the Bears have the same mediocre team in 2009-2011 with Kyle Orton or some other scrub throwing to Jeremy Maclin, Johnny Knox and Devin Hester and a middle of the road defense better by 1 Pro Bowler. They were ranked 21, 4 and 14 in points those seasons, so maybe they make a run in 2010 if the replacement level QB can not fuck it up. That’s the year Cutler got hurt in the playoffs, so I think we saw what replacement level would have got them.

In 2012 the Bears land Russell Wilson just in time for the defense to get old and when Maclin and that coulda-been Pro Bowler are up for second contracts, maybe they keep them. We also add a second coulda-been Pro Bowl defender in the 3rd round of the 2013 draft.

So here we have a magical Bears team with Russell Wilson, Jeremy Maclin, Jeffery, Forte and Bennett and 2 Pro Bowl defenders boosting the league’s worst defense from 32 up to maybe 20. I’d prefer that over what we have today of course, but I’m not seeing back-to-back Super Bowls. And let’s face it, the Bears probably aren’t hitting 4 home runs based on their draft track record.

Cutler has been disappointing and mediocre, but look at the QBs who’ve come out of the draft over the last 6 seasons. Only 6 have accomplished anything at all, Luck, Stafford, Newton, Kaepernick, Dalton and Wilson. 3 were drafted #1 overall. Kaepernick and Dalton are dicey to say the least and Wilson is the unicorn (and slightly over rated IMHO). Maybe without Cutler the Bears bottom out and get the #1 overall pick in one of those years but that’s not exactly a strategy. Maybe they end up with Dalton or Kaep, but I don’t think either of those guys are clearly better than Cutler. Wilson would be nice, but they had a shot at him in 2012 and passed (like everyone else).

I’ve run through this a dozen different ways, there’s not a single scenario that has the Bears coming out better over the last 6 years if they don’t make the Cutler trade. Such is the state of QBs in the NFL.

The Saints have serious salary cap problems. Trading Graham was likely part of the painful process of addressing those issues. I’ve seen some rumors that Brees is also being shopped. If they move him, they’re pretty much throwing in the towel for the rest of the decade.

It’s like you’re right there, but somehow can’t make the next logical step. You know they have up two first rounders and a third rounder (getting back a fifth) to get him. You know they’ve made him the highest paid player in the NFL last year. You know he couldn’t outperform Josh McCown. You know he’s been disappointing and mediocre. But, for whatever reason, you can’t follow those facts to their logical conclusion. And to avoid it, you have to resort to “well, the Bears would have sucked anyway”. Whatever gets you through the long NFL season, I guess.

All these years we’ve been debating Cutler. All these years of “this year will be different!” “it’s the OC and the coaches fault”, and “he has no players around him and the O line sucks” that have been trotted out to hand wave away his actual performances have been shown to be merely excuses. He’s an average, sometimes worse, NFL quarterback who was overdrafted, over-traded to get, and overpaid.

I just wanna throw in that I am a huge fan of Cutler in Chicago and feel he should get an extension.

As a Packer fan, I completely agree. :slight_smile:

Aha, so the trade for Bradford was to entice his old teammate DeMarco! I like how the Eagles best RB has gone McCoy -> Gore -> Mathews -> Murray in about 5 minutes :).

Although it looks like this wasn’t all some grand plan, this makes the McCoy thing basically McCoy for Murray + Alonso, right?

Some good news out of Baltimore, finally - the Ravens re-signed Justin Forsett and DB Anthony Levine. Forsett’s three year, $9M deal is about the biggest thing the cap-strapped team could offer anyone, so they weren’t going to get anyone better to replace him to RB. Levine played better than expected when forced into a starting role last season, and he’ll be a solid dime CB and special teams guy. Still need a TE to replace Pitta when his hip falls off again, but Forsett’s deal take a bit of pressure off.

The Ravens do this every year - they’re almost never big players in free agency. Newsome knows what he’s doing and he generally gets the right player at the right price, but damn is it hard to sit through as a fan.

And the Saints sign Brandon Browner? No contract details available, but after Revis’s monster deal I have to think Browner didn’t come cheap. I have absolutely no idea what New Orleans thinks they’re doing now.

Think that means they gave up on/choose Browner over Trammon?

Think that means we can keep him and make our team THAT much better with the addition by status quo? I’m hoping so

Drafting (or otherwise acquiring) top-notch quarterbacks doesn’t seem to be a Chicago Bears forte. I think by most measures Sid Luckman is the best quarterback that the Chicago Bears have ever had and when was his last season in the N.F.L. - back in the 1950s?

Just sayin’.

And when Jim Harbaugh is in the conversation for consideration as your team’s SECOND-best quarterback, ever, well…

I’m too young to remember the Steelers’ defense of 1976, regarded by many as THE best defense in the history of the N.F.L. But I DO remember the ‘85 Bears’ defense, and it was AWESOME (72 sacks that season. Are you effing kidding?). If the Chicago Bears, with THAT defense, could make it to and win only ONE Super Bowl, then, yeah - I don’t see them making it back to one again any time soon.

Are you under the impression that the success or lack thereof of a sports franchise in the 80’s/90’s/00’s is going to have some kind of effect on what they do in the 2020’s?

How does that work, exactly? Voodoo hex?

If not for Charles Martin we probably win two.

It’s like you’re pathologically unable to grasp the realities of the QB market in the NFL. Understandable for a Packer fan I guess, since it’s been a solid 25 years since you’ve been in the market for one.

Cutler hasn’t gotten it done. It sucks. He is capable of getting it done which is what continues to make him interesting. The Broncos spent a lot to draft him, the Bears spent a lot to trade for him and then to retain him. All true.

But, do you have an understanding of how much the Browns have invested in their search for a starting QB? The Vikings? How much the Redskins invested to roll the dice with Griffin? How much the Chiefs invested in Alex freaking Smith? Do you realize how much other frustrating and inconsistent QBs like Eli Manning, Tony Romo, Matt Stafford and Colin Kaepernick are getting paid this year?

The Bears paid market price for him. He’s been average. Lots of other teams have paid market price for QBs who haven’t even sniffed average. A few teams have tried to get by without paying market price for a QB instead hoping for some good fortune later in the draft and, with the exception of the Seahawks, that list is comprised of the the cellar dwellers and laughing sticks of the league.

The Bears took a chance. It hasn’t worked out, but it sure as shit is better than just waiting around and hoping. And they definitely didn’t overpay for him. Look at the top 16 QB salaries in the league, it’s not like it’s a list of super stars, franchise players and perennial MVP finalists and Super Bowl winners (Interestingly, 4 of the top 10 QBs aren’t even in the top 16 - Brady, Luck, Newton and Wilson). It’s not like Cutler sticks out like a sore thumb in that list.

I suppose I should stop feeding the troll here, but you’re pretty much the only one still talking about the Cutler trade 6+ years later and pretty much no one is making the case, then or now, that that was some kind of highway robbery.

What I understand is that you can get a QB just as good as Cutler for no draft picks and a ton less money. PFF has guys like Drew Stanton, Jake Locker, Mark Sanchez, Shaun Hill, Kirk Cousins, and Zach Mettenberger all rated higher than Jay Cutler, and you can get them cheap and easy.

The Bears paid (and paid to acquire) Jay Cutler as if he were an elite QB. If you want to try and defend that, he should be playing at an elite level. And he’s not. That’s the point. You can wash your hands and repeat that “Well, that’s just what they cost”, but the fact remains is his performance isn’t just a touch under, but is severely under his cost. And pointing out that other teams have made the same mistake doesn’t change that.

I admit, it is a case where I’m gloating. When he was drafted, we disagreed on him. When the Bears traded for him, we disagreed on him. The entirety of his career, we disagreed on him. We’ve argued about how he does, and how he plays.

And now we have the results. You’ve run out of excuses, you’ve run out of reasons to defend his average to sub-average pay. I was right, you were wrong, and that sticks in your craw. Were I a better man, I wouldn’t continue to raise it.

This is where you’re fundamentally wrong. I’m going to shout this, plug your ears.

YOU CANNOT ACQUIRE A ELITE QB!

That’s it in a nutshell. Elite QBs simply don’t hit the open market. Above average QBs don’t hit the market. Period, full stop.

There are 2 examples of “elite” QBs being acquired in this era, Drew Brees and Peyton Manning. Both were seriously injured prior to those moves. Brees hadn’t proven that he was elite prior to that trade. Most people thought Peyton was retiring and the Colts knew they had Luck incoming. Special cases and each was risky and still very expensive in it’s own right.

The Bears never paid “elite QB” prices. There is no such thing as an elite QB price since there is no market for them, they are essentially priceless. what the Bears paid for was elite potential. It sucks ass that he hasn’t reached that potential, but it’s silly to paint this as some organizational failure.

Can the Bears win a Super Bowl with Cutler as their QB, last year I’d have said yes. Today I say maybe. Now, in both scenarios the Bears have to get A LOT of other things right, close to perfect, and get lucky. It’s basically the Giants and Eli scenario. Hasn’t happened.

Can Cutler carry a team to a Super Bowl? Can he mask a bunch of other problems like you expect from an elite QB? Nope, not a chance. That’s the reality for probably 28 other teams too, so there’s no reason to be embarrassed by it.

Maybe the Bears should have bailed on Cutler, tanked, and started hoping for the good fortune to draft an elite QB in 2013. Of course we’d still be waiting and we’d probably be starting Matt Cassel or Zach Mettenberger something. We’d have ~$10M extra to spend on defense but we’re still not going anywhere. Can we stop pretending Cutler is some albatross holding the franchise back?

Percy Harvin to the Bills

DeAngelo Williams to the Stillers.

Just keeping the news alive =)

Also with that signing it makes my Packers and the Ravens the only two teams in the league who have yet to sign a player from outside their organization so far.

Stillers were the third, but no more