# NFL Offseason Thread: Combine & Free Agency Version **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 23, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165 "2010-02-23T20:53:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/221 "2010-03-13T04:47:47Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > The Lions have one cornerback on their roster currently. The Lions don’t need DB’s with their tenacious style of defensive play. They need “SUH!” ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/222 "2010-03-13T05:19:43Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > The Lions have one cornerback on their roster currently. Maybe the Bears can dupe the Lions into trading for Vasher for say a 5th round pick. Um, yeah… Just heard Sal Palantonio on Mike and Mike and he’s saying that the Eagles are adamant that they aren’t trading Kolb or McNabb for anything short of a 1st round pick. Sal Pal is usually right when it come to the Eagles. This is utter madness from the Iggles. McNabb isn’t that good, is in the last year of a contract and is due $11M next year. Not to mention that he isn’t that good! Kolb has thrown something like 130 passes in his NFL career. He’s young and people like his potential, but he’s got absolutely not credentials to merit a #1. Hell he wasn’t even drafted in the 1st round. The Eagles are gonna end up eating all 3 contracts and they are going to be without a QB under contract in 2011. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/223 "2010-03-13T05:21:12Z")
Not only that, but most of the teams who need a QB are picking at the top of the draft, and no one is going to give up a top 10 or 15 pick for McNabb. They should be happy to get a high second rounder if they decide that’s the direction they’re going. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/224 "2010-03-13T05:26:48Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Not only that, but most of the teams who need a QB are picking at the top of the draft, and no one is going to give up a top 10 or 15 pick for McNabb. They should be happy to get a high second rounder if they decide that’s the direction they’re going. If I’m the Eagles I take the Seahawks 2nd rounder for McNabb and get Kolb’s agent on the phone immediately. If they’ve been sandbagging on Kolb and he’s actually not the second coming of Brady they should get the Seahawks to up their offer to a 2nd rounder and a 3rd or 4th rounder and ship him off and laugh all the way to the bank. Insisting on a 1st is completely counter productive. That said, you’re spot on about all those teams at the top of the draft. By my count there’s like 7 teams who are pretty desperate for a young QB and there’s really only 2 guys in the draft worth that 1st round pick. Once Claussen comes off the board the Eagles might get one of these teams to panic and make a draft day trade for Kolb instead of keeping their fingers crossed and waiting to see if Lefevour or Pike last until the 2nd round. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/225 "2010-03-13T08:48:06Z")
From the WTF files, the Redskins [signed](http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4990553) Larry Johnson to a 3-year deal worth $3.5M and incentives up to $12M. I know Shanny is a RB savant and if anyone can squeeze a couple years of production from the guy it’s him, but that contract sounds absurd. His deal could end up being worth more than Thoma Jones, Chester Taylor and more than LDT is projected to get. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/226 "2010-03-13T08:55:48Z")
Sounds reasonable, depending on how the incentives are structured. If he sucks they’re only out a bit over a million a year. If they set reasonable goals for incentives - like if he rushes for 1200+ yards or something - then he’s worth the extra money. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/227 "2010-03-13T08:57:54Z")
Did he have competing offers out there? I bet they could have signed a 1-year deal with the same terms and been hunky dory. Thomas Jones only got a 2-year deal for $5M. That contract is absurd considering the market for RBs this offseason. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/228 "2010-03-13T11:45:11Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > 30 is getting pretty old for a DE. Very few guys are Reggie White and Simeon Rice Michael Strahan is a better “productive old guy” to use as an example than Simeon Rice. Here are their career numbers in their 30s: Simeon Rice (turned 30 in Feb 04) ```auto ---Tackles--- Pass Year G GS Cmb Tot Ast Sack Def FF 2004 16 16 40 34 6 12 5 1 2005 15 15 40 33 7 14 3 6 2006 8 8 18 14 4 2 2 4 2007 8 1 9 6 3 1 2 0 --- --- --- ---- --- --- TOTAL 107 87 20 29 12 11 ``` Michael Strahan (turned 30 in Nov 01) ```auto ---Tackles--- Pass Year G GS Cmb Tot Ast Sack Def FF 2001 16 16 73 60 13 22½ 2 6 2002 16 16 70 55 15 11 2 2 2003 16 16 76 61 15 18½ 5 3 2004 8 8 34 24 10 4 0 1 2005 16 16 81 59 22 11½ 2 1 2006 9 9 38 28 10 3 2 0 2007 16 15 57 45 12 9 2 1 --- --- --- ---- --- --- TOTAL 429 332 97 79½ 15 14 ``` ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/229 "2010-03-13T15:24:48Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > The Lions don’t need DB’s with their tenacious style of defensive play. They need “SUH!” Oh, come on. pass defense all starts with the defensive line. I say this, knowing full well that the Lions, quite literally, need help and could draft any position on the field, except quarterback. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/230 "2010-03-13T17:12:32Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > This is why just about everyone is predicting that the Bears will ship Olsen to the Pats for picks. I can’t make up my mind on how I feel about that possibility. Is Olsen even a mediocre blocker? Do the Bears ever use him that way? If not, I’m not sure the Pats will take him. Belichick is all about versatility, so if Olsen is only good for catching passes, that’s gonna be a problem. Watson could block OK. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/231 "2010-03-13T21:05:56Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Michael Strahan is a better “productive old guy” to use as an example than Simeon Rice. Here are their career numbers in their 30s: > > Simeon Rice (turned 30 in Feb 04) > > ```auto > > ---Tackles--- Pass > Year G GS Cmb Tot Ast Sack Def FF > 2004 16 16 40 34 6 12 5 1 > 2005 15 15 40 33 7 14 3 6 > 2006 8 8 18 14 4 2 2 4 > 2007 8 1 9 6 3 1 2 0 > --- --- --- ---- --- --- > TOTAL 107 87 20 29 12 11 > > ``` > > Michael Strahan (turned 30 in Nov 01) > > ```auto > > ---Tackles--- Pass > Year G GS Cmb Tot Ast Sack Def FF > 2001 16 16 73 60 13 22½ 2 6 > 2002 16 16 70 55 15 11 2 2 > 2003 16 16 76 61 15 18½ 5 3 > 2004 8 8 34 24 10 4 0 1 > 2005 16 16 81 59 22 11½ 2 1 > 2006 9 9 38 28 10 3 2 0 > 2007 16 15 57 45 12 9 2 1 > --- --- --- ---- --- --- > TOTAL 429 332 97 79½ 15 14 > > ``` I wasn’t really looking at it from a “over 30” perspective, but from a changed teams for a big contract in the middle of their career to eventually win a Super Bowl perspective. Rice’s numbers after his move to Tampa. ```auto Year ▴ Age Tm Pos No. G GS Sk Int Yds TD Lng PD FF Fmb FR Yds TD Tkl Ast Sfty AV 2001 27 TAM RDE 97 16 16 11.0 0 0 0 0 8 2 0 0 0 0 39 5 8 2002*+ 28 TAM RDE 97 16 16 15.5 1 30 0 30 0 42 10 1 21 2003* 29 TAM RDE 97 16 16 15.0 2 12 0 12 8 6 0 1 0 0 44 6 17 2004 30 TAM RDE 97 16 16 12.0 0 0 0 0 5 1 0 0 0 0 35 5 9 2005 31 TAM RDE 97 15 15 14.0 1 6 0 6 4 6 0 0 0 0 33 7 9 2006 32 TAM RDE 97 8 8 2.0 0 0 0 0 1 4 0 0 0 0 16 4 4 2007 33 2TM 8 1 1.0 0 0 0 0 2 6 3 1 ``` > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Is Olsen even a mediocre blocker? Do the Bears ever use him that way? If not, I’m not sure the Pats will take him. Belichick is all about versatility, so if Olsen is only good for catching passes, that’s gonna be a problem. Watson could block OK. Not really. He can’t block well but at the same time he was rarely asked to do it. He was split out as a WR more often than he was asked to block. Though they did occasionally line him up as a full back, not that it was particularly successful. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/232 "2010-03-13T21:24:21Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > This is utter madness from the Iggles. McNabb isn’t that good, is in the last year of a contract and is due $11M next year. Not to mention that he isn’t that good! I’m sure you’ll understand my amusement at this comment. McNabb, 2009: 267-443, 3,553, 22 td. 10 int. QB rating 92.9 Jay Cutler, 2009 336-555, 3,666 27 td, 26 int. QB rating 76.8 McNabb trade request: 1 first rounder. Cutler traded for: 2 first rounders, a 3rd rounder, and their starting QB (they did get a 5th rounder back) ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/233 "2010-03-13T21:36:29Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > Oh, come on. pass defense all starts with the defensive line. I say this, knowing full well that the Lions, quite literally, need help and could draft any position on the field, except quarterback. I was totally joking. The Lions need help everywhere, like you said, except for QB. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/234 "2010-03-13T21:38:24Z")
You left out a couple important features. Jay Cutler: 25 years old. Under contract for 3 years at $20M. Has upside. Donovan McNabb: 34 years old. Under contract for 1 year at $11M. Has no upside. So do you want to give a 1st rounder for a finished product who’s not shown an ability to win a big game and who isn’t under contract for more than 1 year and might retire at any point and is injury prone. Or do you want to give the equivalent of a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick for a guy who has perhaps a decade left to play, has been durable and has unlimited potential? I’d take Cutler right now over McNabb every day and twice on Sunday, even with the 26 picks. So would every single NFL GM and most football fans for their own teams. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/235 "2010-03-13T22:16:41Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I was totally joking. The Lions need help everywhere, like you said, except for QB. That was the other possibility. I’m glad I can still have trust in someone else’s football knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/236 "2010-03-13T22:55:36Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > You left out a couple important features. > > Jay Cutler: 25 years old. Under contract for 3 years at $20M. Has upside. > > Donovan McNabb: 34 years old. Under contract for 1 year at $11M. Has no upside. > > So do you want to give a 1st rounder for a finished product who’s not shown an ability to win a big game and who isn’t under contract for more than 1 year and might retire at any point and is injury prone. Or do you want to give the equivalent of a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick for a guy who has perhaps a decade left to play, has been durable and has unlimited potential? > > I’d take Cutler right now over McNabb every day and twice on Sunday, even with the 26 picks. So would every single NFL GM and most football fans for their own teams. I get it. You love Cutler, especially his “upside” and “unlimited potential”. Nevermind the 27 ints or his losing records; dammit he has “UPSIDE!!!”. Youth is the only reasons I’d take Cutler over McNabb today. But if I wanted to win a football game, it’d be McNabb in a second. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/237 "2010-03-13T23:06:15Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I get it. You love Cutler, especially his “upside” and “unlimited potential”. Nevermind the 27 ints or his losing records; dammit he has “UPSIDE!!!”. Youth is the only reasons I’d take Cutler over McNabb today. But if I wanted to win a football game, it’d be McNabb in a second. I finally figured it out. \*\*Omni \*\*is Jay Bilas. Reveal yourself, ESPN college basketball personality. That’s the only other person I’ve ever heard of that loves them “upside” so much. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/238 "2010-03-13T23:42:08Z")
Browns reportedly ink [Jake Delhomme](http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4992744) to a 2 year deal. Um… ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/239 "2010-03-14T00:28:30Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Browns reportedly ink [Jake Delhomme](http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4992744) to a 2 year deal. > Um… Good for Jake. He gets his guaranteed Carolina cash, and the Browns new money. Hope he does well. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/240 "2010-03-14T01:17:28Z")
As a Bengals fan, I welcome Jake Dell-hommie with the open arms of Antwan Odom, Tank Johnson, Domata Peko and Robert Geathers. Maybe Rey Maualuga too. I’m sure they’ll give him a proper welcome to the AFCN. And the Bengals resigned Roy Williams to a 1 year deal. Most think that he’s worthless, but that guy was just plain fucking vicious back in the secondary before re-injuring his broken forearm (allegedly for not wearing his protective, padded brace in a game) and coach Zimmer is really high on him, so if he can return to form in 2010, I predict a Hines Ward concussion in the very near future… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165.md?page=13)