# NFL Offseason Thread: Combine & Free Agency Version **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 23, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165 "2010-02-23T20:53:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/281 "2010-03-17T16:36:24Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > The Vikings last year getting Favre was surely the exception to the rule. The thing is, though, that a great QB is vitally important to success in the current NFL, so the teams finding success, as a general rule, already have a solid QB. The teams that are looking for one, generally, don’t. So the middle ground, where a team is primed, but just needs a QB, doesn’t happen all that much. The Cards and Panthers I think are a couple that could use McNabb to make a run. Personally, I think the Ravens, the Titans, the Jets, and other teams could have used a guy like McNabb (if anyone of his caliber were available) when they “great but lacking a QB” teams. And the Cards got one with Warner. But those teams drafted QBs highly instead, and may find their window slowly closing while they wait for them to develop. I tend to agree. Teams put way too much stock in the idea of drafting a first-round franchise QB. I agree with whoever it was upthread that said the way to do it is draft QBs in the middle and late rounds and try to develop them. The problem with those number ones is embodied with the Cards right now. They’ve spent so much time and money on Leinert that they feel obligated to give him one more shot, even though it’s likely he’s never gonna be good. It’s the sunk-costs tempation. The other thing a young QB brings is job security for the coach and GM. If the Bears had brought in McNabb a year ago, and he played the way Cutler did, there would have been a housecleaning. As it is, Lovie Smith still has a job. If the Panthers bring in McNabb now and go 8-8 this year and 9-7 next, John Fox gets canned because it’s a stagnant team. If they do the same with a young QB who is showing progress, Fox likely stays. ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/282 "2010-03-17T16:56:25Z")
> [@furt](#): > > And as far as the stats go – Cutler’s first four years were better than McNabb’s first four (and his first three years, which is what his trade value was based on a year ago, were _much_ better). More INTs, but also more TDs, a better completion % and better yards per attempt. _Much_ better? Are you sure? Did you forget that McNabb was a running QB in those days? Because I’d rather have McNabb’s 89 total TDs and only 42 turnovers (INTs and fumbles) over Cutler’s 84 total TDs and 68 turnovers through their first four years. Cutler fumbles _a lot_, at least compared to McNabb. McNabb has fumbled only nine more times than Cutler, _despite playing seven more years_. Everyone is assuming Cutler is this stud QB… so far he looks a hell of a lot like Jon Kitna. > [@](#): > > Granted, McNabb had crappy recievers back then, but Cutler’s weren’t all that good for most of that time, and his horrible fourth year came after a tumultous offseason, huge media pressure, and a system change. ISTM more likely that it was year four that was the fluke, not the first three. Trying to dismiss Cutler’s poor '09 because of a “tumultuous offseason” is a poorly conceived reach, considering who you’re comparing Cutler to. I can’t think of a QB in this generation that has dealt with more stupid nonsense than McNabb. Limbaugh, T.O., Philly fans, etc.. Any defense about “pressure” applies much more so for McNabb. I also don’t buy that you can dismiss Cutler’s '09 when McNabb, despite all that nonsense he dealt with, has only had one season with a QB Rating as low as Cutler’s '09… his rookie season. Pressure is a dud defense anyway. All QBs deal with pressure. Did you (or anyone else) notice that Cutler has gotten _worse_ with every passing season? Consistently, by the way. QB rating has dropped in every season. YpA and Completion % has dropped in each of the last three. His interception rate nearly doubled in '09, after holding steady from '07 to '08. I’m starting to wonder if I want Cutler on my team at all, all things considered. At least not until he improves on a previous season. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/283 "2010-03-17T16:59:22Z")
> [@furt](#): > > The other thing a young QB brings is job security for the coach and GM. I hadn’t actually thought about that, but it does make a lot of sense. The “we’re developing a young QB” excuse may keep some of them in jobs longer than they should. Good thought. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/284 "2010-03-17T17:37:04Z")
> [@furt](#): > > I tend to agree. Teams put way too much stock in the idea of drafting a first-round franchise QB. In the last 10 years, the only QBs drafted after the 1st round that have been worth a damn have been Tom Brady, Matt Schaub, Tony Romo (undrafted), and to a lesser extent David Garrard. Derek Anderson and Marc Bulger were the only ones aside from those four who have made a Pro Bowl. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/285 "2010-03-17T17:43:40Z")
> [@Jules\_Andre](#): > > _Much_ Everyone is assuming Cutler is this stud QB… so far he looks a hell of a lot like Jon Kitna. OUCH! Kitna absolutely fucking sucks! High praise indeed! ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/286 "2010-03-17T20:47:02Z")
In case no one has heard, Derek Anderson [signed a 2 year deal](http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5003121) to go to Arizona to compete with Leinart. He’s going to make between $7.25M and $18.25M. Those numbers seem awfully high, I guess that illustrates how desperate the QB market is. If he’s able to start and play well (not sure what the terms of the incentives are) he could end up being the 13th highest paid QB in the league. That’s nuts. That’s more money that Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger and about 5 times what Leinart is due. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/287 "2010-03-17T20:54:26Z")
He can be good with receivers making crazy plays to bail him out of his inaccuracy, maybe he can succeed there. No idea with the contract. Surely there couldn’t have been that much competition? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/288 "2010-03-17T21:07:44Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > He can be good with receivers making crazy plays to bail him out of his inaccuracy, maybe he can succeed there. > > No idea with the contract. Surely there couldn’t have been that much competition? There had to have been to justify that contract I think. Perhaps the Seahawks, Niners, Raiders and Panthers were all bidding for him. We noted before the disparity between the teams at the top of the draft and the available rookies, so perhaps teams are looking to Anderson and Delhomme so they could avoid the perils of a QB in the draft. Still, potentially $9M/year?!?!? ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/289 "2010-03-17T21:17:12Z")
As the resident Cardinals fan, I’m not too happy with the Anderson signing. I guess the thinking is that if Leinart wins the starting job, Anderson makes a decent backup. The Cards have quite a few needs to address in the draft and don’t want to waste a pick on a QB until they see what Leinart brings. If Leinart bombs, then Anderson could help them hobble along to an ok season and hopefully avoid TV blackouts and a huge drop in season ticket renewals in 2011. The Cards have a decent home schedule this year including the Saints, Broncos, and Cowboys. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/290 "2010-03-17T21:19:49Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > As the resident Cardinals fan, I’m not too happy with the Anderson signing… That’s funny, it makes me very happy. 😃 Then again, I’m a 9ers fan. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/291 "2010-03-17T21:27:20Z")
Tim Tebow [will be invited](http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft10/news/story?id=5003533) to the NFL Draft and he will attend. > [@](#): > > On the heels of an impressive workout at Florida’s pro day, league sources say that Tim Tebow is among those players who have been invited to New York for the April 22-24 NFL draft. > > Tebow, who unveiled his new throwing motion for scouts, coaches and general managers in his workout, has accepted the invitation from the league, according to an official. Two NFL personnel men told ESPN that Tebow’s workout on Wednesday boded well for the Gators quarterback, especially with those teams that were considering him as a high draft prospect. > > The league did not release the entire list of players invited, though it is expected to include at least four quarterbacks – Tebow, Oklahoma’s Sam Bradford, Notre Dame’s Jimmy Clausen and Texas’ Colt McCoy. > > The league traditionally invites players who are projected to go in the first round. A league official said that even though Tebow could be a first-round selection, the new three-day draft format also motivated the NFL to double its invitation list from nine players in 2009 to 18 at next month’s draft. > > The new draft format will conduct the first round only on April 22, a Thursday night, and the second round only on the next night. The final four rounds will be conducted on Saturday. I wonder if he’ll attend on Thursday or later. Even with a solid Pro Day I can’t believe anyone will take him on day one, this new format could really make the green room interesting. Colt McCoy also isn’t projected as a first day guy but will probably attend. My biggest fear is that they’ll breakout the 1st and second rounds into their own days and then the fucking announcers will spend the entire show talking about Tebow and McCoy and hardly talk about the guys who are actually drafted. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/292 "2010-03-17T21:35:14Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > As the resident Cardinals fan, I’m not too happy with the Anderson signing. I guess the thinking is that if Leinart wins the starting job, Anderson makes a decent backup. The Cards have quite a few needs to address in the draft and don’t want to waste a pick on a QB until they see what Leinart brings. > > If Leinart bombs, then Anderson could help them hobble along to an ok season and hopefully avoid TV blackouts and a huge drop in season ticket renewals in 2011. The Cards have a decent home schedule this year including the Saints, Broncos, and Cowboys. It would amaze me if blackouts were an issue in Arizona. With that new stadium and an interesting group of players and soft division, they should be drawing really well. It’s not like Phoenix is a small market, are there that many issues with the economy there? On topic, I think Arizona is a good situation for DA. The guy had his one good season with a good WR corps and Fitzy and Breaston are the perfect guys for him to sling it around the yard to. Accuracy is an issue and that makes him the anti-Warner but it’ll be worth watching, and perhaps playing is as many domes as the Cards do his accuracy could improve. I’ll be curious to see if arm strength or accuracy wins out between Leinart and Anderson. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/293 "2010-03-17T21:52:12Z")
Blackouts are an issue almost every week. [Here](http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/2009/09/11/20090911spt-cardssellout.html) is a link to the first home game of 2009 against the 49ers. The Cards first regular season game after the Super Bowl. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/294 "2010-03-17T22:52:17Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > My biggest fear is that they’ll breakout the 1st and second rounds into their own days and then the fucking announcers will spend the entire show talking about Tebow and McCoy and hardly talk about the guys who are actually drafted. Ugh, that’s my fear too. I absolutely hate that. Watching the NFL Draft Show is drawn out enough already without hearing the heads fellating a player _ad nauseum_. Especially when he isn’t particularly good. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/295 "2010-03-17T23:42:14Z")
As of right now, the Panthers’ backup QB is Hunter Cantwell. Has any team ever gone into a season with a QB squad that has a combined 8 starts? They let Peppers go for nothing; they cut a bunch of veterans; they sign no one in FA… and they raised ticket prices! Charlotte is not too happy with Jerry Richardson at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/296 "2010-03-18T01:31:53Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Man, the Jets are stupid. They basically paid LDT the same money that it would have cost to keep Thomas Jones and TJ is a much better football player than LDT right now. Baffling. Looks like they really want Greene to start. TJ is better than Greene, so he had to go. I’m not a fan of Complainian, but I suppose he’s fine to spell or take over for Leon Washington is he’s not 100% yet. In my ideal scenario it’ll be 60% Greene, 40% Washington with Tomlinson never seeing the field. > [@Omniscient](#): > > McNabb[…]'s never won anything in the NFL playing on one of the most consistently talented teams in the league. He’s never won a Superbowl, but he’s won plenty of things. He won the NFC East something like 5 years running. He’s also undoubtedly won countless player of the week / month type awards. > [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > Has any team ever gone into a season with a QB squad that has a combined 8 starts? That doesn’t seem all that crazy to me. For example, the Giants went into the 2005 season with a combined 9 starts at the QB position. (Eli Manning had 7, Tim Hasselback 2 and Jared Larenzon none.) And they were feeling good about their chances, though maybe not quite as good as the 11-5 they went. Then there was last year’s Jets with a combined 8 starts: Mark Sanchez had none, Kellen Clemens was the veteran with 8, and Eric Ange had none. I could be biased due to my market, but it doesn’t seem that crazy to me. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/297 "2010-03-18T01:36:58Z")
I’m as confused by the LT signing as anyone else, but I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt. The Chargers were not a good running team last season and I don’t think it was all the RBs’ fault. That said, this is absolutely the last season for LT to show he’s still got something left, and the Jets give him as good an opportunity as anyone. They have a great O-line. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/298 "2010-03-18T02:08:04Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > I’m as confused by the LT signing as anyone else, but I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt. The Chargers were not a good running team last season and I don’t think it was all the RBs’ fault. That said, this is absolutely the last season for LT to show he’s still got something left, and the Jets give him as good an opportunity as anyone. They have a great O-line. I completely agree on both counts. The Chargers became enamored with the passing game (and for the most part, rightly so with their mammoth-sized WR’s) and got away from the run a bit, so that plays in LT’s favor. Perhaps this turns into one of those “revenge is the best sauce” type deals for LT. He’s one of the best ever, he gets a little hurt and less productive (and maybe a little complacent within the system) due to age, and now he has something to show. He may very well rip off another career year out of his body just to show up the naysayers and his old team. It isn’t likely given his age and treadwear, but its certainly possible. I know I’ll be watching for him as a 3rd fantasy back next year. I do however agree with those that are mystified by cutting Jones and adding LT. I wouldn’t have done that unless team finances dictated it must be so (and maybe they did). ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/299 "2010-03-18T03:25:28Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Perhaps this turns into one of those “revenge is the best sauce” type deals for LT. He’s one of the best ever, he gets a little hurt and less productive (and maybe a little complacent within the system) due to age, and now he has something to show. He may very well rip off another career year out of his body just to show up the naysayers and his old team. I doubt it. If Washington is healthy he is far better than Tomlinson, and Greene is a wrecking ball compared to either of them so Greene will clearly be #1. The only issue is whether Washington is healthy, and some speculate that his injury is/was career threatening. Knock on wood, if Leon can go I highly doubt Tomlinson will get on the field for more than 4-5 plays a game. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/300 "2010-03-18T03:33:38Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > In the last 10 years, the only QBs drafted after the 1st round that have been worth a damn have been Tom Brady, Matt Schaub, Tony Romo (undrafted), and to a lesser extent David Garrard. Derek Anderson and Marc Bulger were the only ones aside from those four who have made a Pro Bowl. Drew Brees says Who Dat! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165.md?page=16)