# NFL Offseason Thread: Combine & Free Agency Version **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 23, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165 "2010-02-23T20:53:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/401 "2010-04-08T19:16:25Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > OOOooooo. Look at Mr. ESPN Insider! Mr. Big Britches!!! OOooooooo!! šŸ˜› > > (Is it worth it? This is the only time of year that I think about joining for the draft information, but there are just so many sources for free and I donā€™t really respect Kiperā€™s opinion all that much.) Iā€™m not completely sure itā€™s worth it. I get my moneyā€™s worth during draft time and I also use it for a lot of college recruiting info and some of the deeper MLB stuff for fantasy. I donā€™t really like The Magazine but it comes with the subscription to Insider so on the whole itā€™s a fairly justifiable $40. That said, I _really love_ the NFL draft stuff. It destroys the free alternatives in quality and quantity. > [@](#): > > Seems like every year, there is a guy who I canā€™t even fathom why is talked about in the first round. Jason Pierre Paul is that guy this year. I have no idea (outside of apparently nice ā€œmeasurablesā€) why this guy is considered anything more than a 3rd round developmental project. Heā€™s weak, has no real pass rush moves, isnā€™t very strong against the run, and has very little production. This beast had a whopping zero total sacks against studly teams like Wofford, Western Kentucky, and Charleston Southern, and only 6 all frickin year in a crappy division. Heā€™s raw, played only one year Div 1 football, and gets by on his athleticism not his skills. Iā€™ve only seen a bit of his tape, and while he certainly can make some nice plays, I saw nothing that made me go ā€œWOWā€. Maybe after a few years if he bulks up and learns the position, heā€™ll develop into a great player, but taking him in the first round is, IMHO a completely wasted pick. Yeah, this is probably a pretty safe analysis. A few people have compared him to Javon Kearse. Thatā€™s pretty high praise, but really Kearse had an excellent start to his career and faded pretty quickly to mediocrity. The biggest red flag to me in addition to his middling production at the college level is that he did all that playing on the opposite side from another stud DE in George Selvie. In college, if you have 2 great DEs they both should be putting up monster numbers like Mario Williams and Manny Lawson did. Itā€™s bizarre that Selvie is only rated with maybe a 5th round grade when his production was better than JPP. > [@](#): > > I am counfounded by the ā€œdraft expertsā€™ā€ reaction to Mays too, because he strikes me a lot like JPP. Outstanding measurables, but not much production. But Mays is a 4 year starter from USC and has a bit more versatility. Yet Mays seems to the bottom half of the first round. I suppose what happens to Eric Berry will be instructive. The Safety position used to be a ā€œnever in the first roundā€ position kinda like OG and OC. Things have changed with the proliferation of Tampa 2 zones and rise of the passing game, but if everyone is desperate for a OT and Berry, who many have as the best player in the entire draft, slides all the way to the 10th spot or so the rest of the Safeties will probably feel the effects. While Taylor Mays is that Combine monster and physical dynamo the two guys ahead of him at the position are considered nearly flawless prospects. You donā€™t see that too often at a position. Man itā€™d be great if the Bears had a first rounder in this draft, all three of those guys would be incredible additions. Hopefully the depth at the position is equally good. > [@](#): > > I think the OT/DT/DE positions in the first round are more a function of need and position rather than sheer talent. I think there are some damn good RBs, WRs, and TEs that can be grabbed after the first round and make teams very happy. I think there are a ton of positions that are incredibly deep. The shallow ones seem to be CB, DE and OLB. Ben Tate is a RB Iā€™d _love_ to see the Bears add n the 3rd round, though theyā€™ll almost certainly feel that drafting an OG or FS is more crucial. > [@](#): > > Iā€™m fascinated with the second round this year. With the break overnight and the lower cost of moves, I expect much more trading up and down this year and I like the talent in the second and third rounds. Itā€™s a pretty deep class I think. Should be fun. Iā€™m not sure if I like the changes to the draft this year, but Iā€™ll reserve judgment until after Iā€™ve tried it out. Youā€™re right that it should encourage a lot of trades though. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/402 "2010-04-08T19:37:31Z")
If Berry is available at 7 I think the Browns take him. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/403 "2010-04-08T23:51:40Z")
If Berry is there at 7, the Browns fill out the card in 1.5 seconds and sprint to the booth. They might even trade up for him. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/404 "2010-04-09T18:24:47Z")
This is small potatoes but Greg Olsen [tweeted](http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/04/greg-olsen-wants-to-remain-a-bear.html) that heā€™s excited about the Martz system and doesnā€™t want to play anywhere else. Considering the broad speculation that he was unhappy and that he wouldnā€™t fit in the new scheme this is reassuring news. I like the guy and hope he keeps getting better, so Iā€™m happy for this news. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/405 "2010-04-09T18:38:12Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > This is small potatoes but Greg Olsen [tweeted](http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/04/greg-olsen-wants-to-remain-a-bear.html) that heā€™s excited about the Martz system and doesnā€™t want to play anywhere else. Considering the broad speculation that he was unhappy and that he wouldnā€™t fit in the new scheme this is reassuring news. I like the guy and hope he keeps getting better, so Iā€™m happy for this news. Maybe heā€™s now realized heā€™s not going to be asked to block shit and just catch balls. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/406 "2010-04-09T21:38:37Z")
In a Mike Martz system?! I agree that he doesnā€™t use TEs to block, but cā€™mon, he doesnā€™t use TEs _at all_. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/407 "2010-04-09T21:49:28Z")
I just discovered that the Browns signed Eric Ghuichec earlier this year as a backup C/OG. Browns fans better pray that Mack never goes downā€¦Guy-check is _terrible_. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/408 "2010-04-09T22:05:17Z")
Martz often uses Tight Endsā€¦ for max-protect schemes. His SOP is two-receiver route combinations that take forever to develop. In 49erland, there have been reports that scouts for the 49ers, from Singletary/Baalke on down, have been at workouts for high-profile QBs, such as Bradford, Clausen, and McCoy. I donā€™t know if theyā€™re just there for shits and giggles, covering all their bases, or if Nate Davis is no longer considered our development QB. My best hope is that theyā€™re gathering info to show Singletary that Tim Tebow isnā€™t anything more than a promising long-term development project. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/409 "2010-04-10T06:05:13Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > Maybe heā€™s now realized heā€™s not going to be asked to block shit and just catch balls. Iā€™m wondering if he and Cutler just quietly agreed to be good soldiers and wait until the management team in place finally implodes under itā€™s own incompetence. When Jerry and Lovie get shit canned Olsen and Cutler will be able to finally have hope. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/410 "2010-04-10T20:58:52Z")
Sam Farmer put together a [new mock draft](http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/sc-spt-0411-farmer-nfl--20100410,0,1734979,full.story) by having reporters in each teams home newspaper call the picks. Itā€™s a really sound methodology, though itā€™s not entirely clear if the reporters are selecting the guys they think their teams should draft or the players they think they will draft. Take a look, I donā€™t see too many choices that seem like longshots. Oakland reaching for Bruce Campbell is probably the biggest flaw but we all know that them making that pick would surprise exactly no one. Thereā€™d obviously be a major domino effect if the Raiders act slightly sane for once and take one of the better players listed later, but all in all itā€™s a solid article. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/411 "2010-04-10T21:02:32Z")
If the Browns take Jimmy Clausen I will light myself on fire in front of their training facility. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/412 "2010-04-10T21:11:37Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > If the Browns take Jimmy Clausen I will light myself on fire in front of their training facility. You sir, are a _fan_. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/413 "2010-04-10T22:22:58Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > If the Browns take Jimmy Clausen I will light myself on fire in front of their training facility. Yeah, that one looked like a bit of a stretch, but with Holmgren you just donā€™t know. Heā€™s a QB guy and who knows what to make of those moves he made this offseason at the position. If Claussen is there he could be a steal since most draft boards Iā€™ve seen have him rated 4th or 5th overall, but there is a vocal minority that thinks heā€™s a bust. Who knows where Holmgren rates him. The Browns could be a prime trade-up partner if Claussen reaches them. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/414 "2010-04-11T00:30:15Z")
Explain this Clausen dislike to me. I admit I only watched one of his games (against Michigan) and some clips, but I really donā€™t understand why people are so much against him as an NFL prospect. Heā€™s had great production, heā€™s gotten better every year, he plays (quite well) in a Pro Style offense, and heā€™s accurate, with a good arm, and smarts. I hear the knock an his intangibles (heā€™s not a leader, blah blah blah), but he seems to have the respect of his teammates. I just donā€™t get the Clausen hate. Iā€™d love it if the Pack got him. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/415 "2010-04-11T01:27:46Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Explain this Clausen dislike to me. I admit I only watched one of his games (against Michigan) and some clips, but I really donā€™t understand why people are so much against him as an NFL prospect. Heā€™s had great production, heā€™s gotten better every year, he plays (quite well) in a Pro Style offense, and heā€™s accurate, with a good arm, and smarts. I hear the knock an his intangibles (heā€™s not a leader, blah blah blah), but he seems to have the respect of his teammates. > > I just donā€™t get the Clausen hate. Iā€™d love it if the Pack got him. You could have said the same about Brady Quinn (minus the accuracy part). Clausen had one halfway decent season and everybody jumped back on his bandwagon. So I guess if youā€™re a highly touted QB coming out of high school and put together one good college season, thatā€™s enough. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/416 "2010-04-11T03:54:57Z")
That mock reminds me of how much Iā€™m going to be fretting if Eric Berry is gone by #7. If heā€™s there - slam dunk, great, woot. If heā€™s not - who the hell is worthy of the #7 pick? Blah. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/417 "2010-04-11T04:14:26Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > That mock reminds me of how much Iā€™m going to be fretting if Eric Berry is gone by #7. If heā€™s there - slam dunk, great, woot. If heā€™s not - who the hell is worthy of the #7 pick? Blah. Safeties are an interesting animal. People compare Berry to Ed Reed, but who would they have compared Ed Reed to? Rod Woodson? Ronnie Lott? There just seems to be a cushion of years before the next amazing safety comes out and gets recognition. Yes, I know Troy Polomalu exists. I donā€™t remember people saying that he was going to be the next amazing safety when he was coming out, just that he had a good head for the game and made plays, pretty much the same thing thatā€™s said about every elite safety prospect. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/418 "2010-04-11T04:36:28Z")
As a 49ers fan, Iā€™d be very happy with the Browns if they picked Clausen at #7. Iā€™m worried the '9ers would pick him up at #17 if he fell that far. Iā€™m impressed by Clausen, but Iā€™m not convinced heā€™s special enough to disrupt our current QB corps by picking up in the first. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/419 "2010-04-11T11:39:17Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Explain this Clausen dislike to me. I admit I only watched one of his games (against Michigan) and some clips, but I really donā€™t understand why people are so much against him as an NFL prospect. Heā€™s had great production, heā€™s gotten better every year, he plays (quite well) in a Pro Style offense, and heā€™s accurate, with a good arm, and smarts. I hear the knock an his intangibles (heā€™s not a leader, blah blah blah), but he seems to have the respect of his teammates. > > I just donā€™t get the Clausen hate. Iā€™d love it if the Pack got him. Like I said, it seems to be a very vocal minority. I donā€™t think thereā€™s any systemic or widespread ā€œClaussen hateā€, most of the hardcore scouts seem to like him. Itā€™s the media guys that seem to be spinning the hate. As for why, well I think thatā€™s pretty simple. First heā€™s a Notre Dame guy. People love to hate on ND. Second heā€™s a Charlie Weis guy and the bloom is off that rose. Most importantly every casual observer thinks heā€™s Brady Quinn 2.0 because of the previous two points. Lastly and perhaps most notably he has that Jay Cutler face that just is easy to hate. He looks the role of the villain, the snobby rich pussy that expects everything to be handed to him and complains when he doesnā€™t get his way. Thatā€™s not to say he is that kid, but he has that look. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165/420 "2010-04-11T12:30:07Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > As a 49ers fan, Iā€™m impressed by Clausen, but Iā€™m not convinced heā€™s special enough to **disrupt our current QB corps** by picking up in the first. Snippedā€¦ Isnā€™t the 49ers QB corps still kind of a work in progress anyway? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-thread-combine-free-agency-version/530165.md?page=22)