# NFL Overtime: Some questions **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 22, 2019, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-overtime-some-questions/828186 "2019-01-22T05:04:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-overtime-some-questions/828186/21 "2019-01-23T16:56:14Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > There’s also a new kickoff to start the 3rd overtime period (and I assume the 5th, 7th, etc) Correct, and assuming the team that won the coin toss at the start of the first OT did not defer the choice, the other team would get the choice (kick, receive, or direction) at the start of the third OT. I am assuming that, if it got to a fifth (and ninth, thirteenth, and so on) OT, there would be another coin toss. > [@AK84](#): > > Both codes of Rugby use a “soccer style” extra time. Of its still even, then they have attempted trys (Union) or sudden death (League). I think the Rugby Union World Cup has a (field) goal-kicking “shootout” from the 22m line after extra time now. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-overtime-some-questions/828186/22 "2019-01-23T18:00:36Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > With all due respect to soccer (BIG fan) there is an average of 7 injuries per NFL game v 2.2 for soccer; even when adjusted for roster sizes when you consider NFL players wear helmets, pads and only play 16 games a year it’s easily a much more dangerous sport. A soccer style overtime would be disastrous in American football. > Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk You’re not being responsive to the point being discussed. The point was not: football has more injuries than soccer. The point mooted was that footballers would be significantly likely to suffer injury in an overtime period played to a pre-determined conclusion, rather than ending at sudden victory. That’s not something that a comparison between the two sports is relevant to. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-overtime-some-questions/828186/23 "2019-01-28T00:36:42Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > The logic behind the rule is as follows: > > If a team scores a touchdown with the first possession in overtime, then the defense had the chance to stop them, and failed. Failing to stop the offense from scoring a touchdown becomes a fatal failure. I’ve heard that before, but it doesn’t make logical sense. Perhaps the other team would have let the other offense march down and score a touchdown, but we will never know because the chance isn’t there. But then the argument would be, if the first team scores a TD, the second team scores a TD, then the first team scores whatever, shouldn’t it be fair that each team have an equal number of possessions? Even with a full period we could have unequal number of possessions. That is one of the benefits of the college overtime system, but it is hokey as well as field position and special teams play no part in the game at all. There is really no perfect system to decide what is in all effects a draw. I liked old fashion college ties, but you cannot have that in a single elimination playoff system. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-overtime-some-questions/828186/24 "2019-01-28T00:59:15Z")
Ok GUYS I GOT ONE! Figure THIS out!..actually I think i know… The game should end on a safety immediatly but… Team one scores a FG on its first possession. Team two throws an interception into its opponents endzone, but instead of falling down immediatly, the idiot runs it a yard out of the endzone then runs it back in giving up a safety. Team two should win the game having scored a safety, but its a point behind team one.\* - I think the answer is that team one wins despite the safety. Is that correct? ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-overtime-some-questions/828186/25 "2019-01-28T01:50:03Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Ok GUYS I GOT ONE! Figure THIS out!..actually I think i know… > > The game should end on a safety immediatly but… It does END immediately upon the safety. No one said that determined who won. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-overtime-some-questions/828186/26 "2019-01-28T12:10:07Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Team one scores a FG on its first possession. Team two throws an interception into its opponents endzone, but instead of falling down immediatly, the idiot runs it a yard out of the endzone then runs it back in giving up a safety. Curiously, it appears that the NFL rulebook doesn’t specifically address this situation. > [@NFL Rules Article 3. Extra Period](#): > > c. If the team that possesses the ball first scores a field goal on its initial possession, the other team (the second team) shall have the opportunity to possess the ball. > > 1. If the second team scores a touchdown on its possession, it is the winner. > 2. If the second team scores a field goal on its possession, the team next scoring by any method shall be the winner. > 3. If the second team does not score on its possession, the game is over, and the first team is the winner, subject to (4) below. > 4. If the second team loses possession by an interception or fumble, the down will be permitted to run to its conclusion … The logical rule would be along these lines: 1. If the second team scores a field goal on its possession, the team next scoring by any method shall be the winner. 2. Otherwise, the game is over when the second team’s possession ends and the team with the larger score is the winner. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-overtime-some-questions/828186/27 "2019-01-28T14:38:53Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Curiously, it appears that the NFL rulebook doesn’t specifically address this situation. Sure it does. Going by the 4 points you quoted in the “Extra Period” rule… 1. The second team didn’t score a touchdown in its possession. 2. The second team didn’t score a field goal either. 3. The second team didn’t score on its possession (you lose possession in a turnover). 4. And the second team did get an interception, the interception was permitted to run to its conclusion, and that conclusion was a safety. So going purely by those rules as quoted, and without having to extrapolate any further, at that point the game is unambiguously over. And at the conclusion of the game, the first team has one more point than the second team, and is therefore the winner. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-overtime-some-questions/828186/28 "2019-01-28T14:58:59Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Sure it does. Going by the 4 points you quoted in the “Extra Period” rule… > > 1. The second team didn’t score a touchdown in its possession. > > 2. The second team didn’t score a field goal either. > > 3. The second team didn’t score on its possession (you lose possession in a turnover). > > 4. And the second team did get an interception, the interception was permitted to run to its conclusion, and that conclusion was a safety. > > So going purely by those rules as quoted, and without having to extrapolate any further, at that point the game is unambiguously over. And at the conclusion of the game, the first team has one more point than the second team, and is therefore the winner. Rule 4 actually changed this year - it used to be if the first team got a field goal, then the 2nd team turned it over, the game ended instantly. They let the play run to it’s conclusion, because there’s no mechanism for a ref to blow the play dead, but nothing that happened after the turnover mattered. So think of the following case: Team 1 scores a field goal. Team 2 gets the ball, throws an int, team 1 player stupidly tries to run it back, fumbles, team 2 player scoops it up and runs it in for a TD. 2017 and previous - team 1 still wins. 2018 & later - team 2 wins. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-overtime-some-questions/828186/29 "2019-01-28T15:45:52Z")
Read recently about the [California tie-breaker](https://slate.com/culture/2019/01/california-tiebreaker-football-overtime-format.html) (which California doesn’t use anymore). Basically, put the ball on the 50 yard line. Team one runs a play, team two runs a play, continue until each team has had 4 (or 8, pick a number) offensive plays. Who ever has the most net yards wins (if no one scores, you can tell just by where the ball is). It does appear to take the field goal off the table. I kind of like it - even number of possessions, same number of defensive/offensive chances. Run the teams on and off the field after every possession is a bit hokey, but also adds some theater to the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-overtime-some-questions/828186/30 "2019-01-28T20:50:15Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Read recently about the [California tie-breaker](https://slate.com/culture/2019/01/california-tiebreaker-football-overtime-format.html) (which California doesn’t use anymore). > > Basically, put the ball on the 50 yard line. Team one runs a play, team two runs a play, continue until each team has had 4 (or 8, pick a number) offensive plays. Who ever has the most net yards wins (if no one scores, you can tell just by where the ball is). It does appear to take the field goal off the table. One thing I remember about the California tiebreaker that doesn’t get mentioned very often; if you turn the ball over, you lose your remaining plays, the other team gets the ball at the 50, and if they can end any of their remaining plays across the 50, the game ends immediately. It beats the San Francisco tiebreaker; in San Francisco’s public school league football playoffs, if a game ended in a tie after regulation, the team that won the regular-season game between the two was declared the winner. I think that’s still what they do if a playoff game is tied after three OT periods. And even that’s better than what California’s Central Coast Section (the coastal countries from just south of San Francisco to somewhere around San Luis Obispo, plus San Francisco’s Catholic schools) did if a championship game ended in a tie - they declared co-champions (something it can’t do any more as only section champions qualify for statewide postseason play). ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-overtime-some-questions/828186/31 "2019-01-29T07:22:13Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > You’re not being responsive to the point being discussed. The point was not: football has more injuries than soccer. The point mooted was that footballers would be significantly likely to suffer injury in an overtime period played to a pre-determined conclusion, rather than ending at sudden victory. That’s not something that a comparison between the two sports is relevant to. All I was saying is that you can play to the end of a soccer game where both teams have an equal chance to score, and regardless of the score at the end of overtime. In American football it’s more imperative to end overtime as quickly as you can because it’s so much more dangerous. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-overtime-some-questions/828186/32 "2019-01-29T07:32:22Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Ok GUYS I GOT ONE! Figure THIS out!..actually I think i know… > > The game should end on a safety immediatly but… > > Team one scores a FG on its first possession. Team two throws an interception into its opponents endzone, but instead of falling down immediatly, the idiot runs it a yard out of the endzone then runs it back in giving up a safety. Team two should win the game having scored a safety, but its a point behind team one.\* > > - I think the answer is that team one wins despite the safety. Is that correct? I’m confused. Team One kicks a FG and scores 3 points. Team One gives up a Safety, making Team One 3-2. This is on the second possession, I believe the “safety wins the game rule” applies only when Team One has the ball in FIRST possession? At that point however, Team Two gets a crack at the ball since Team One must kick off? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-overtime-some-questions/828186/33 "2019-01-29T07:49:59Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > I’m confused. > > Team One kicks a FG and scores 3 points. > Team One gives up a Safety, making Team One 3-2. > This is on the second possession, I believe the “safety wins the game rule” applies only when Team One has the ball in FIRST possession? > > At that point however, Team Two gets a crack at the ball since Team One must kick off? There is no rule about a safety winning the game. A safety _ends_ the game. Big difference. And your scenario is implausible. If Team One gets a field goal, it then kicks off. Now it’s Team Two’s possession. If Team Two fails to score before losing possession, the game is over and Team One wins. So when does Team One give up a safety? Unless Team Two also kicks a field goal, and then the ball is kicked back to Team One in sudden death (next score ends the game). ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-overtime-some-questions/828186/34 "2019-01-29T07:58:54Z")
Here’s an easier way to think of it… In over time, **any** score ends the game, with only two exceptions: 1. If the opening possession ends in a field goal, the ball is kicked off to the other team who gets a possession. 2. If the second possession ends in a tying field goal, the next team that scores points will win. So again, any time points are scored the game will end aside from the two scenarios above. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-overtime-some-questions/828186.md?page=1)