# NFL Playoffs Division Weekend **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 9, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-playoffs-division-weekend/709426 "2015-01-09T19:21:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-playoffs-division-weekend/709426/161 "2015-01-14T13:52:01Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I think you’re seriously reaching for a hypothetical that will never, ever exist in the real world to solve a problem that isn’t a problem. There is absolutely no situation where what you posit would occur. But isn’t it a problem with the rule that an obvious catch is by rule not a catch? Look at Bryant’s catch. Caught, controlled then dropped as he reaches for the goal line and I’ve seen plenty of catches where the receiver gets it, controls the ball, takes a few steps and then drops the ball when hit and yet it is incomplete because taking steps laterally based on momentum is not football move. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-playoffs-division-weekend/709426/162 "2015-01-14T14:47:48Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I think the rule should be if you land with both feet and control of the ball it’s a completion. The definition of a football move is to take a step or dive for the sideline or a first down and so theoretically a receiver could catch a pass on the 1 yard line and stand there letting the clock wind down. No matter how long he stands there, if a defenseman hits him and the ball pops loose under the rules it is an incomplete pass. Even if they turn and they do not attempt to advance the ball it is incomplete. A receiver could catch the ball and their momentum make them take 6 steps back to the line of scrimmage - not a football move and so not a complete pass. You know, if you’re going to talk about how bad a rule is, you should probably make sure you actually know what it says. As the official rules (already posted in this thread!) make clear, the receiver does NOT have to make a football move. They must possess it long enough to be ABLE to make a football move. So your hypothetical receiver who catches the ball and stands motionless for five minutes has had posession long enough to _be able to_ make a move, and has clearly not gone to the ground as a result of the catch: assuming in-bounds and what-not, it’s a completed pass. If after the five minutes, the reciever dropped it for whatever reason (as long as he wasn’t down of course), then it’s a fumble. And again, a ‘two feet down + possession’ rule would have more times where it felt ‘wrong’, according to what we think a catch should be. I assume you don’t mean to disallow diving (or sitting/kneeling) catches, so we’d need to make sure that a knee or any other non-hand body part would also work. But now, any diving catch is complete the instant a knee or elbow touches, so if somewho dives for a ball or does a sideline tippy-toe, catches it, but has it come loose when their elbows hit, that would be a completion and cause outrage because it didn’t seem like it should be one. ---
**Author:** ![Apocalypso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Apocalypso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apocalypso)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-playoffs-division-weekend/709426/163 "2015-01-14T16:51:22Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > It’s not a fumble because it’s an incomplete pass under the “going to the ground” rule. He caught the ball while jumping, and it touched the ground and came loose when he landed. His feet/knees/elbows touching the ground are all irrelevant. He can’t fumble the ball because there was never a completed pass; the play is over when the ball touches the ground. > > If he had caught the ball on the 8 and then ran to the 7, fell, and dropped the ball, it would be a fumble (or down by contact) because the fall is a separate action from the catch. For Dez’s play to be ruled this way, you basically have to claim that he landed from his jump and then for some reason separately decided to dive when he could have just run into the end zone. That explains it very clearly, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-playoffs-division-weekend/709426/164 "2015-01-14T17:39:51Z")
OK I have a question on a call from the [Colts/Broncos game](http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000457005/Cribbs-ruled-down-by-contact). Josh Cribbs of the Colts is the punt returner and Omar Bolden from the Broncos is going downfield to cover. Bolden is outside of Cribbs meaning closer to the sideline and Dewey MacDonald of the Colts is inside of Bolden blocking for the punt returner. Bolden is angling inside to get to the returner which means that MacDonald isn’t doing a good job blocking but it also means that MacDonald is trying to move Bolden **away** from Cribbs. Bolden does not give Cribbs the opportunity to catch the ball (halo rule) but it is OK because he was blocked into the receiver. What? I’ve seen that call when the cover team is pushed INTO the receiver but never when the cover team runs over the blocker and receiver. So why was it a block into the receiver? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-playoffs-division-weekend/709426/165 "2015-01-14T18:02:08Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > You know, if you’re going to talk about how bad a rule is, you should probably make sure you actually know what it says. As the official rules (already posted in this thread!) make clear, the receiver does NOT have to make a football move. They must possess it long enough to be ABLE to make a football move. That may be true but the “long enough” is still subjective. I’ve seen receivers take multiple steps with the ball but yet it is still incomplete. [Here is the NFL clip](http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000456759/Did-Dez-catch-it). At 31 seconds, Dez has landed and he is gripping the ball with both hands and it is tucked onto his shoulder. Now at 39 seconds (reverse angle) Dez has taken two steps and is falling to the ground. He has his right hand out to break the fall and his left hand is under the ball and clearly gripping it. Now look at 40 seconds. Dez clearly has control although his hand is to the side. But this is what is critical and makes it a catch. His hand is on the side controlling the ball and his body hits the ground _while the ball is still at least 6 inches off the ground_ ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-playoffs-division-weekend/709426/166 "2015-01-14T18:27:17Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Now look at 40 seconds. Dez clearly has control although his hand is to the side. But this is what is critical and makes it a catch. His hand is on the side controlling the ball and his body hits the ground _while the ball is still at least 6 inches off the ground_ That doesn’t matter. The ball hits the ground and pops out. It doesn’t matter that some parts of Dez’s body contact the ground first. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-playoffs-division-weekend/709426/167 "2015-01-14T18:29:39Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > [Here is the NFL clip](http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000456759/Did-Dez-catch-it). At 31 seconds, Dez has landed and he is gripping the ball with both hands and it is tucked onto his shoulder. Now at 39 seconds (reverse angle) Dez has taken two steps and is falling to the ground. He has his right hand out to break the fall and his left hand is under the ball and clearly gripping it. Now look at 40 seconds. Dez clearly has control although his hand is to the side. But this is what is critical and makes it a catch. His hand is on the side controlling the ball and his body hits the ground _while the ball is still at least 6 inches off the ground_ The rule seems to say that none of that matters. He’s still in the process of falling to the ground - the process doesn’t end when the first part of his body hits the ground. When that process ends might be open for debate, but it’s not ended as soon as a body part hits the ground. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-playoffs-division-weekend/709426/168 "2015-01-14T19:47:31Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Out of curiosity I dug up the discussion thread from Megatron’s no-catch. > > link (my apologies to everyone who had successfully forgotten about how impervious to facts gonzomax was) > > Disappointingly, I don’t see any gross hypocrisy by any posters between that thread and this based on which team got the short end of the stick. 😛 Heh. I was curious to see if I responded in that thread (I rarely post in sports threads), and it looks like I did, and I did think the Lions got jobbed back then (even though I thought it was strictly the correct call by the wording of the rules), too, even though it was my home team (the Bears) that benefited from the call. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-playoffs-division-weekend/709426/169 "2015-01-14T19:56:47Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree then. I don’t see any point where he’s got the ball and isn’t going to the ground. I don’t know if this matters, given the way the rules are written, but it doesn’t look to me like he’s going to the ground until he trips over the defender. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-playoffs-division-weekend/709426/170 "2015-01-15T00:38:25Z")
I have to say, I’m not a fan of this suggestion from [Kirk Goldsberry](http://grantland.com/the-triangle/how-wed-fix-it-the-nfls-penalty-flag-problem/), to make the refs throw different colored flags depending on if the penalty is on the offense or the defense. Because you know what really gives me goosebumps during a game? When Jeff Tripplette throws a ticky-tack flag on the defense during a stellar touchdown play, so that the crowd is nice and subdued while we wait for the refs to confer and Tripplette to finally announce the penalty that will be declined. I just love watching referees work! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-playoffs-division-weekend/709426/171 "2015-01-15T01:34:24Z")
Yeah, well, they need to put a transponder inside the ball and have a pencil-beam spotlight tracking it so all the viewers in the stands and at home can tell what is happening. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-playoffs-division-weekend/709426/172 "2015-01-15T18:22:38Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Yeah, well, they need to put a transponder inside the ball and have a pencil-beam spotlight tracking it so all the viewers in the stands and at home can tell what is happening. They can do it electronically for the TV audience. Here, I’ve [whipped up](http://a.scpr.org/i/94b7e32c3253125eec4153346236fbd8/86246-eight.jpg) a [simulation](http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/286493/slide_286493_2224772_free.jpg). Not sure why the field is white, or why the players have sticks, but whatever. It will be _awesome!!!_\*\* ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-playoffs-division-weekend/709426/173 "2015-01-17T19:03:28Z")
[Conference Championship Thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=746514) I hadn’t seen one yet. If I missed an earlier thread post, use that one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-playoffs-division-weekend/709426.md?page=8)