# NFL Preseason 2022 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** football-nfl\ **Created:** [August 9, 2022, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-2022/969388 "2022-08-09T22:44:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2022, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-2022/969388/21 "2022-08-12T19:06:49Z")
That’s fine, but this isn’t the team saying it. This is Schefter sharing the offer with other GMs and getting outside feedback on it’s market value. This is not a he-said/she-said thing. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2022, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-2022/969388/22 "2022-08-12T19:34:08Z")
PFF extracts their rankings solely from the depths of their sigmoid. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2022, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-2022/969388/23 "2022-08-12T21:57:54Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Doesn’t PFF base their individual rankings around taking other players into account? The article states the opposite; that his lower grade was the direct result of his poor performance as the pieces around him do badly. > [@Omniscient](#): > > PFF extracts their rankings solely from the depths of their sigmoid. Exactly, it seems like they rank a person, then explain afterward that being on a poor team might be the reason for the decline in production. They don’t adjust the rankings because of being on a poor team. When I listen to sports radio, some of the pundits ignore PFF entirely, and that might be why. It is often a chicken-and-the-egg sort of question though in a team sport like football. Can a great player make the team around them better? Can a bad team drag down a great player? How do you figure that out and judge a player? Case in point: Andrew Luck, considered by most to be a fantastic QB. The Colts were 2-14 the year before they signed him, he led them to 11-5 and the playoffs his first year. He broke all kinds of records as a rookie. A great player. But he was frequently injured, and most attribute that to poor protection. That cut his career short and kept him off the field often even when he was playing. If he was better protected, he could likely have had a Hall of Fame career. Instead, he was the story of a great QB who ultimately didn’t have a chance to reach his potential. It’s difficult to make an objective evaluation of how great a player is in a sport like this one. Even for defenders. If a pass rusher is one of 3 elite guys going after the QB, does he get large sack totals just because the other 2 guys are more than an offensive line can handle? What about the cornerback who is so dominant that nobody throws in his direction anymore, and so he gets few interceptions/tackles/passes broken up. I don’t envy anyone who tries to objectively evaluate football talent. It’s freaking difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2022, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-2022/969388/24 "2022-08-12T22:32:21Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Exactly, it seems like they rank a person, then explain afterward that being on a poor team might be the reason for the decline in production. They don’t adjust the rankings because of being on a poor team. They grade each player individually based on each and every play on the field, not based on how the team does as a whole. It doesn’t matter whether a teammate made an outstanding play or missed a tackle, it’s how each individual did with their assignment. > [@Atamamasama](#): > > When I listen to sports radio, some of the pundits ignore PFF entirely, and that might be why. It is often a chicken-and-the-egg sort of question though in a team sport like football. Can a great player make the team around them better? Can a bad team drag down a great player? How do you figure that out and judge a player? By watching them and grading every play. > [@Atamasama](#): > > Case in point: Andrew Luck, Good example. PFF graded Luck not based on his team’s performance, but by watching and grading his every play basedon how he did, not based on how his line protected him or if his WR dropped a pass. They recognized how much better Luck played after one year in the league, and how his play suffered sometimes (mostly due to injuries like in 2015. > [@Atamasama](#): > > It’s difficult to make an objective evaluation of how great a player is in a sport like this one. Even for defenders. If a pass rusher is one of 3 elite guys going after the QB, does he get large sack totals just because the other 2 guys are more than an offensive line can handle? Another good example. PFF recognizes the difference between earned sacks and “clean up sacks”, where someone gets the sack thanks to another player’s pressure. They also judge the players play even if the player doesn’t get a sack, but does beat his guy and creates pressure. > [@Atamasama](#): > > What about the cornerback who is so dominant that nobody throws in his direction anymore, and so he gets few interceptions/tackles/passes broken up. Again, good example. PFF judges the players’ coverage even if the ball doesn’t come their way. They tract stuff like separation, ball placement, etc too. > [@Atamasama](#): > > I don’t envy anyone who tries to objectively evaluate football talent. It’s freaking difficult. Which is why I tend to trust a respected group who watch every play of every player and takes performance into account rather than just the statistical outcome. Of course it is just one data point, but a pretty good one. I certainly trust them more than a some jamoke on a message board who watches a game once and decides based on their general feeling. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2022, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-2022/969388/25 "2022-08-13T12:40:26Z")
Thoughts on the first Packer preseason game: 1. Two huge coverage mistakes in the first half gave the Niners 2 easy, long TDs. With their top 5 DBs all inactive, it’s not really a surprise, but not something you want to see. 2. Jordan Love looked better than last year and is still a pretty good college QB (too bad its the NFL). His accuracy issues are killer though. 3 interceptions (one not his fault) and missing easy throws to open guys gives me no faith that he’ll be the future or even good trade bait. 3. Kinda fun to see a couple ex-Packers playing pretty well for the Niners in Kadar Holliman and Oren Burks. 4. The running game looks pretty good and with pretty good depth. Stopping the run (which was a huge problem last year) was pretty good until later in the game when they got gashed. 5. This team (like any NFL team) is so much better when healthy. They need Bakhitiari and Jenkins back or more development by Nijmam, Toms, and VanLanen to win the Super Bowl. It was fun to watch football again. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2022, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-2022/969388/26 "2022-08-13T20:42:27Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Jordan Love looked better than last year and is still a pretty good college QB (too bad its the NFL). His accuracy issues are killer though. 3 interceptions (one not his fault) and missing easy throws to open guys gives me no faith that he’ll be the future or even good trade bait. I bet he’d still be an upgrade for Seattle. 😬 ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2022, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-2022/969388/27 "2022-08-13T21:11:37Z")
Bears get a W over the high octane Chiefs. Might be the highlight of the season. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2022, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-2022/969388/28 "2022-08-13T21:40:13Z")
Wentz was just okay in his WAS debut. Nothing spectacularly good or bad. Rookie QB Sam Howell looked good against the Panthers backups. Scored a couple of rushing touchdowns and had a few good throws. It all means probably nothing but football is back! ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2022, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-2022/969388/29 "2022-08-14T01:06:11Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > PFF had Roquan as the 62nd best LB in the league with a 47.8 rating. You have to pay for that, right? Would you (or anyone else) do me a favor and look up Andrew Thomas, the Giants LT, for me? His run and pass blocking rankings. With Thomas, all last year during games I kept hearing announcers talk about how he was the lone bright spot on the terrible offensive line, or at least that he was the clear best of the bunch and the only one you might reasonable plan to keep. (New regime brought in two more hopefully-keepers. Optimism springs eternal.) But I was never all that impressed. He’s not exactly failing my eye test, but he’s not winning it either. I didn’t find myself yelling at the screen “Run left, dummies!”, y’know? I suspect he’s probably toward the bottom, I guess that means in the 20s range, and all the praise is just by contrast with the other four schmucks on the line last year. But I can’t find any definitive rating; I see padlocks where the numbers would be, so I guess that’s premium. I did find this [PFF 2021 OL Rankings](https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021-offensive-line-rankings) article that says: > [@](#): > > **30.** [**NEW YORK GIANTS**](https://www.pff.com/nfl/teams/new-york-giants/21) **(Down 2)** > > LT [Andrew Thomas](https://www.google.com/url?client=internal-element-cse&cx=d8671e796471ba795&q=https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/andrew-thomas/59701&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjtqr2zmqv1AhXMRzABHcHLDQIQFnoECAkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2ukrCiRctGRn4-q8e842ej) | 78.4 > LG [Matt Skura](https://www.google.com/url?client=internal-element-cse&cx=d8671e796471ba795&q=https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/matt-skura/11102&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiF89y3mqv1AhUDTd8KHTaHC34QFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0cSJpi_z-4PV6EnMG8Krhs) | 50.8 > C [Billy Price](https://www.google.com/url?client=internal-element-cse&cx=d8671e796471ba795&q=https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/billy-price/46795&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwinkIm7mqv1AhVpTt8KHQUcDngQFnoECBEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw31oq3bYUV1G59BFm6ybDy3) | 62.3 > RG [Will Hernandez](https://www.google.com/url?client=internal-element-cse&cx=d8671e796471ba795&q=https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/will-hernandez/46180&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwirquC9mqv1AhWHoHIEHYByAEsQFnoECBAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1GtWRUp-w0tfUGJfMyVcsX) | 55.9 > RT [Nate Solder](https://www.google.com/url?client=internal-element-cse&cx=d8671e796471ba795&q=https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/nate-solder/6169&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiWm8nAmqv1AhXoRt8KHSMlAsEQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0nH_SEBaEVVgzwvJeGl1jj) | 60.2 > > Things weren’t just bad on the offensive line for the Giants (left tackle Andrew Thomas had more receiving touchdowns than [Kenny Golladay](https://www.google.com/url?client=internal-element-cse&cx=d8671e796471ba795&q=https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/kenny-golladay/11851&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjZ57XNmqv1AhWFTt8KHcLZB-QQFnoECAUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1SSWWWSFPmAejBzmPN_-TK) and [Kadarius Toney](https://www.google.com/url?client=internal-element-cse&cx=d8671e796471ba795&q=https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/kadarius-toney/61245&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwi7k57Smqv1AhWIhOAKHevmDm4QFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3xMeIEYJ0D75xqfECZWKsc) — their big-money free agent and first-round rookie — combined), but it certainly started there. > > Thomas was the best-graded player on the line, and when he missed time, things were near disastrous. He allowed 19 pressures across 517 pass-blocking snaps. His development in Year 2 was a massive positive, but he might be the only member of the line who has a clear future going forward. But that’s just more of the same thing I heard all last season. I just now found his PFF player card. Where his run and pass blocking ratings would be are little padlocks, signifying premium content. Bastards. Little help? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2022, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-2022/969388/30 "2022-08-14T01:14:52Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Wentz was just okay in his WAS debut. Nothing spectacularly good or bad. How pathetic is the NFC East QB situation in general? Far and away last out of the eight divisions, no question. Good lord. Daniel Jones looked journeyman-esque in his two drives on Thursday. Or maybe not even. Tyrod Taylor looked better to me, though from what I saw I wouldn’t go so far as to say he looked “good.” (I bailed at halftime.) I would be happy to see a QB controversy between Jones and Taylor. Hopefully I’m starting it right now. Put Taylor in! ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2022, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-2022/969388/31 "2022-08-14T01:39:10Z")
The career of the backup quarterback fascinates me (Blaine Gabbert started for the Bucs while Brady was busy colluding with somebody, or something. For their opponent, the Dolphins, they let rookie Skylar Thompson play the game). It’s a great job if you can manage to snag it; you end up a millionaire, you avoid any big injuries, and sometimes you manage to collect a ring. But you have to show up in the preseason. You must come in and show that you can run the regular offense. You have the advantage that a lot of the superstars on the opposing defense will be sitting, but it’s in the preseason that you get to act like the team has confidence in you, and you get to wing it around the field (if you actually do come in during the regular season, they won’t have nearly the same trust, and you’ll probably just be handing it off or throwing screens). If you put up impressive numbers, good news! You secure your roster spot, play pretend opposing qb all week in practice, and then get a great view of an NFL game each Sunday. (Just hope that the team’s #1 doesn’t go down, exposing your actual incompetence against those superstars you avoided during the practice games). ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2022, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-2022/969388/32 "2022-08-14T01:47:14Z")
> [@"EllisDee](#): > > You have to pay for that, right? Would you (or anyone else) do me a favor and look up Andrew Thomas, the Giants LT, for me? His run and pass blocking rankings. I got a yearly membership to PFF free in conjuction with a totally legal, not at all problematic site that may or may not involve gambling. Here’s Andrew Thomas’s stuff: He’s their 19th highest rated OT, just above Jason Peters and just below David Quessenberry (who?). 12th in pass blocking (with an outstanding 82.1 grade), but 43rd in run blocking (68.5). Most importantly, he improved a masssive 16.5 points from 2020. Only Mark Glowinski (another who?) graded above a 70 on the Giants O line. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2022, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-2022/969388/33 "2022-08-14T01:52:03Z")
Thanks much, I appreciate it. Okay, well I guess that’s why I’m not yelling “run left!” I am heartened by his pass block ranking, and also the fact that he’s 19th. That’s a little better than I was expecting. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2022, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-2022/969388/34 "2022-08-14T01:59:00Z")
> [@"EllisDee](#): > > How pathetic is the NFC East QB situation in general? Far and away last out of the eight divisions, no question. Good lord. Dak is good. Jalen Hurts is very good … if he doesn’t have to pass that much or face a good defense. Danny Dimes (can I just say how fucking ridiculous it is that the NY media gave him a flattering nickname before he even played a regular season game?) was way overdrafted but might be average. And I was told repeatedly that Carson Wentz is a MVP caliber QB. All in all, pretty much average for QB’s in the NFL. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2022, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-2022/969388/35 "2022-08-14T05:51:46Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > And I was told repeatedly that Carson Wentz is a MVP caliber QB. There was an extremely brief time where he played like he he could develop into one. He wowed me with some of the things he could do. Then I have no idea what happened to him. It was like, he got hurt, and so the Eagles hooked him up to that thing from the _Dark Crystal_ that sucks out your life and put it into Nick Foles. It made Foles a superhero just long enough to get them through the postseason and win a Super Bowl. Then Nick’s temporary powers ran out and he went back to being a journeyman QB, and Wentz was a withered husk. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2022, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-2022/969388/36 "2022-08-14T17:01:34Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Rookie QB Sam Howell looked good against the Panthers backups. Scored a couple of rushing touchdowns and had a few good throws. I’m sure I’ll see a repeat on NFL network, I assume Heinicke is basically out of the picture now? ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2022, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-2022/969388/37 "2022-08-14T17:10:38Z")
Backup Colts QB Sam Ehlinger was straight _balling_ in our preseason game against the Bills. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2022, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-2022/969388/38 "2022-08-14T17:45:17Z")
He played, but didn’t do very well. Threw an interception. Think he sees the talent in Howell and might be trying too hard. If there’s a roster crunch, Taylor will probably be on the block. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2022, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-2022/969388/39 "2022-08-16T03:40:54Z")
The Roquan Smith saga gets weirder. > **[NFL warns teams not to communicate with rogue Roquan Smith rep](https://nypost.com/2022/08/15/nfl-warns-about-rogue-roquan-smith-representative-saint-omni/amp/)** > > Roquan Smith has raised alarms throughout the NFL. I feel like maybe I need to change to screen name after this… ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2022, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-2022/969388/40 "2022-08-16T05:45:45Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I feel like maybe I need to change to screen name after this… To what? Roquandary? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-2022/969388.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-2022/969388.md?page=3)