# NFL Preseason Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 12, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-discussion/762577 "2016-08-12T17:18:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-discussion/762577/141 "2016-09-08T16:27:05Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > And here’s proof that you can say anything with statistics. I use the best teams in the division, you use the worst, and we get completely different answers. On that note, does anyone know of a site that can filter out one team’s win/loss? I’m curious how divisions would look without Patriots/Packers/Colts/Broncos, etc. would look. The same site gives team-by-team records, which you can average in any way you like. Division records: AFC East 53.8% NFC East 52.6% AFC North 52.6% NFC South 50.4% AFC South 50.4% AFC West 48.5% NFC North 47.7% NFC West 44.0% Division records without BEST teams: NFC East 50.5% AFC North 50.0% NFC South 48.7% AFC East 46.7% AFC South 45.6% AFC West 45.4% NFC North 44.4% NFC West 41.3% Division records without WORST teams: AFC East 57.2% AFC North 56.8% NFC East 55.8% AFC West 53.9% AFC South 53.1% NFC South 52.8% NFC North 51.8% NFC West 46.2% ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-discussion/762577/142 "2016-09-08T16:49:44Z")
> [@zut](#): > > The same site gives team-by-team records, which you can average in any way you like. > > Division records: > AFC East 53.8% > NFC East 52.6% > AFC North 52.6% > NFC South 50.4% > AFC South 50.4% > AFC West 48.5% > NFC North 47.7% > NFC West 44.0% > > Division records without BEST teams: > NFC East 50.5% > AFC North 50.0% > NFC South 48.7% > AFC East 46.7% > AFC South 45.6% > AFC West 45.4% > NFC North 44.4% > NFC West 41.3% > > Division records without WORST teams: > AFC East 57.2% > AFC North 56.8% > NFC East 55.8% > AFC West 53.9% > AFC South 53.1% > NFC South 52.8% > NFC North 51.8% > NFC West 46.2% And that’s what I get for not using my scroll wheel. Much appreciated! ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-discussion/762577/143 "2016-09-08T17:05:34Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > And here’s proof that you can say anything with statistics. I use the best teams in the division, you use the worst, and we get completely different answers. Just to clarify, the original point made was that the Packers were expected to win the division a lot because their division sucked. You said no, their division was great. These win totals show objectively that no, it wasn’t great. It sucked. EDIT: From what I can gather, free agency as we know it today started in 1993, not 1996. And yes, “the free agency era” is also cherry picking. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-discussion/762577/144 "2016-09-08T18:01:14Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Just to clarify, the original point made was that the Packers were expected to win the division a lot because their division sucked. You said no, their division was great. These win totals show objectively that no, it wasn’t great. It sucked. I was comparing playoff appearances from the NFC North to the AFC East, with the idea that having another playoff team in the division makes things more difficult to win the division. After a second look, it turns out the AFC East is just that much of an outlier, with only 6 non-Patriots playoff appearances. All other divisions have 50-150% more playoff appearances from spots 2-4. > [@](#): > > EDIT: From what I can gather, free agency as we know it today started in 1993, not 1996. And yes, “the free agency era” is also cherry picking. Already admitted, and we’ll bump the numbers to 2 in 23. Is it any less cherry picked than going back to JUST AFTER the 60’s run? It’s like pointing out that the Steelers have only won 2 Super Bowls in the last 36 years, and ignoring the 4 out of 6 they won in the 70’s. And free agency drastically changed how teams are built and managed. It’s commonly used as a descriptor for modern football, along with post-1976 rule changes and the Super Bowl era, to name a couple others. What’s not fair about using that as a limiter? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-discussion/762577/145 "2016-09-08T18:27:54Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Is it any less cherry picked than going back to JUST AFTER the 60’s run? It’s like pointing out that the Steelers have only won 2 Super Bowls in the last 36 years, and ignoring the 4 out of 6 they won in the 70’s. Almost all of it is cherry picking. Which is why we should just go by the total number of NFL Championships won since the NFL existed. Hey, whatta know. The Packers lead with 13. Whodathunkit? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-discussion/762577/146 "2016-09-08T19:14:43Z")
Feel free to continue the discussion here, but I created a [week 1 thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19614730) ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-discussion/762577/147 "2016-09-08T19:22:46Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Almost all of it is cherry picking. Which is why we should just go by the total number of NFL Championships won since the NFL existed. > > Hey, whatta know. The Packers lead with 13. Whodathunkit? That’s not fair! That includes teams where offensive linemen couldn’t use their hands, the hash marks were farther apart, and the fullback was the main ball carrier. On a history note, what team was actually kicked out of the NFL for illegally using college players? ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-discussion/762577/148 "2016-09-08T20:06:45Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Just to clarify, the original point made was that the Packers were expected to win the division a lot because their division sucked. You said no, their division was great. These win totals show objectively that no, it wasn’t great. It sucked. > > EDIT: From what I can gather, free agency as we know it today started in 1993, not 1996. And yes, “the free agency era” is also cherry picking. If we’re trying to figure out if the Packers mismanage free agency, the free agency era seems like correct era to look at. ---
**Author:** ![cg16](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@cg16](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cg16)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-discussion/762577/149 "2016-09-09T01:30:51Z")
Guess this thread can be closed now, season 2016 of the NFL has started ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-discussion/762577/150 "2016-09-09T05:11:51Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > If we’re trying to figure out if the Packers mismanage free agency, the free agency era seems like correct era to look at. Ha! So totally owned. Nicely done. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason-discussion/762577.md?page=7)