# NFL Preseason **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 6, 2015, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason/727155 "2015-08-06T14:17:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DadWagonDriver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/edb3f5/32.png) [@DadWagonDriver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DadWagonDriver)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason/727155/81 "2015-08-21T15:59:01Z")
I got uncomfortable last night watching my team murder RG-III. Also, I know the Lions lost that game, but I was impressed by what I saw from the first and second team players. I feel better about this team than I did two weeks ago. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason/727155/82 "2015-08-21T16:24:56Z")
Boy, I’m glad I didn’t watch the Bills/Browns game. The “highlights” showed Johnny Manziel making a couple decent throws, so I guess that’s something. The Lions D line looks like they won’t miss Suh too much. Of course, it’s the preseason. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2015, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason/727155/83 "2015-08-21T16:38:51Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > “Slightly above average” is still massively better than any available replacement, and Eli has shown he can at least occasionally elevate his game. Maybe if the Packers weren’t QB-spoiled for over 20 years you’d value a not-horrible one more. I think there are more “not horrible” QB’s who could be available who simply don’t get the opportunity or patience that Round 1 QB’s get. I also think that you put almost almost any “not horrible” QB on that Seattle team, with that running game and defense, and they’re playing for the Super Bowl too. Maybe I am spoiled recently, but I lived through Lynn Dickey, Don Majikowski, and Randy Wright, so I’ve paid my “bad QB” dues. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason/727155/84 "2015-08-23T19:00:21Z")
RGIII reportedly taking part in team workouts today. So much for concussion protocol. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason/727155/85 "2015-08-23T19:22:58Z")
Rumors have it that Jordy Nelson blew his ACL. If true, that is a big loss. Is it even possible he would be back by the end of season? Brian ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason/727155/86 "2015-08-23T21:20:15Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > And your point? My point in that specific question is in the form of a hypothetical conversation in 2010: Ellis: Eli’s worth the money. Look what he can do in the playoffs. Hamlet: That was was a fluke. Statistically he’s barely above average. Ellis: If all you care about is the regular season, sure. But I care about playoffs, where Eli raised his game to bring home a championship. Hamlet: Good luck with that. (several months later) Ellis: Boy, that second ring sure does appear to justify his paycheck in hindsight, amIright? How’s Rodgers’ second ring treating you? Oh, wait, that’s right, Eli played circled around Rodgers and knocked him out of the playoffs, my bad. heh. > [@](#): > > I’m guessing your point is that the only reason the Giants won the Super Bowl was because of Eli Manning Of course not, but he was absolutely critical to both those runs. I don’t think the Giants win either of those Superbowls with any other QB you seem to be saying are Eli’s peers. Eli is worth the money because he’s clutch. You may not believe in clutch, preferring to think that only the regular season matters. In which case, good luck with that. > [@Hamlet](#): > > I think there are more “not horrible” QB’s who could be available who simply don’t get the opportunity or patience that Round 1 QB’s get. I also think that you put almost almost any “not horrible” QB on that Seattle team, with that running game and defense, and they’re playing for the Super Bowl too. Seattle, sure, maybe. But definitely not the Giants. There is no “not horrible” QB who is winning either of those Superbowls (or even making it TO either of those Superbowls) in place of Eli. In 2011 they had the 27th ranked defense and the 32nd ranked run game, but they did have the 5th ranked passing offense. Hmmm… ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason/727155/87 "2015-08-23T21:33:23Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > Rumors have it that Jordy Nelson blew his ACL. If true, that is a big loss. > Is it even possible he would be back by the end of season? > > Brian This is so depressing. My favorite player on my favorite team and I can’t watch him all year. Is there any hope given he jogged off the field pretty fast? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason/727155/88 "2015-08-23T22:05:06Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > My point in that specific question is in the form of a hypothetical conversation in 2010: > > Ellis: Eli’s worth the money. Look what he can do in the playoffs. > Hamlet: That was was a fluke. Statistically he’s barely above average. > Ellis: If all you care about is the regular season, sure. But I care about playoffs, where Eli raised his game to bring home a championship. > Hamlet: Good luck with that. > (several months later) > Ellis: Boy, that second ring sure does appear to justify his paycheck in hindsight, amIright? How’s Rodgers’ second ring treating you? Oh, wait, that’s right, Eli played circled around Rodgers and knocked him out of the playoffs, my bad. That does sound exactly like what I would picture. You, ignoring his playoff record in 2005, his playoff record in 2006, half his playoff record in 2007, and his playoff record in 2008, so you can cherry pick his stats to somehow justify his over-ratedness. And it’s much easier to only look at his playoff work, when he’s gone to the playoffs ONCE in the last 7 years. > [@EllisDee](#): > > Of course not, but he was absolutely critical to both those runs. I don’t think the Giants win either of those Superbowls with any other QB you seem to be saying are Eli’s peers. Almost any QB can get hot for a stretch. Eli did and when it counted most … and then disappeared to mediocrity for a few years. > [@Eli](#): > > Eli is worth the money because he’s clutch. You may not believe in clutch, preferring to think that only the regular season matters. In which case, good luck with that. I think this is the heart of our disagreement. You get to decide when something is “clutch” and you get to decide which playoffs matter for his “clutchness”. Meanwhile, it saves him a bit of pressure, because he hasn’t had to be clutch for quite awhile. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason/727155/89 "2015-08-23T23:28:24Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > That does sound exactly like what I would picture. Which is why history has clearly proved you wrong. > [@](#): > > You, ignoring his playoff record in 2005, his playoff record in 2006, half his playoff record in 2007, and his playoff record in 2008, so you can cherry pick his stats to somehow justify his over-ratedness. Half his record in 2007? Here is where your irrational bias comes into play. Based on stats, you have to mean the wildcard and divisional rounds as his good half. If you really consider his performances in the ice bowl in Green Bay and the Superbowl to be no better than “not horrible” then I question your ability to evaluate NFL QB play. Maybe you didn’t watch the games, but only checked out the box scores the next day? > [@Hamlet](#): > > Almost any QB can get hot for a stretch. Eli did and when it counted most … and then disappeared to mediocrity for a few years. Once might be a fluke, though anyone who doesn’t have a hard-on for hating Eli would have recognized his talent in 2007. But it’s not just 2007 now; he’s done it twice. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason/727155/90 "2015-08-24T00:38:42Z")
And of course history will look more kindly on all those steady, statistically better-than-average QBs without rings. Oh wait, no it won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason/727155/91 "2015-08-24T00:47:31Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Which is why history has clearly proved you wrong. If by “history” you mean “the games where he played very well” then yes. He is capable of being a great QB. But if by “history” you mean the actual definition of the word history, which would include his entire career, including the playoff games he’s sucked in and the regular season, well, then I’m right. > [@EllisDee](#): > > Half his record in 2007? Here is where your irrational bias comes into play. > > Based on stats, you have to mean the wildcard and divisional rounds as his good half. If you really consider his performances in the ice bowl in Green Bay and the Superbowl to be no better than “not horrible” then I question your ability to evaluate NFL QB play. Maybe you didn’t watch the games, but only checked out the box scores the next day? I can honestly admit, I don’t remember all of Eli’s games. I’ve seen him play extremely well, and I’ve seen him suck. As I sit here now, I cannot recall, outside of his Super Bowl performance (made memorable by David Tyree) much of anything. Which is why I usually resort to things like performance stats, passer ratings, and rankings by things I trust, like PFF. I find that things like that to be much more helpful in assessing play than “Eli Shure Kicked Dem Dere Packer Asses that One Time so You must hate him” bullshit you’re trying to peddle. I understand. You really want to put the focus on “clutch” performances, and his upside (which he’s attained more than once). But to do that, you have to ignore a vast majority of his career. Which is fine, for you. For me, I don’t work like that. To each their own. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason/727155/92 "2015-08-24T00:53:43Z")
From [NFL.com](http://NFL.com): [Is Eli Manning asking for too much money?](http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000514186/article/is-eli-manning-asking-for-too-much-money) Eli is maybe the 10th best quarterback in the NFL. Maybe. If money is an indicator of overall value, he’s asking way too much. However, if money is an indicator of value to his team, he can ask for whatever he wants because they won’t easily be able to find anyone as good. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason/727155/93 "2015-08-24T14:24:33Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > Rumors have it that Jordy Nelson blew his ACL. If true, that is a big loss. > Is it even possible he would be back by the end of season? > > Brian There have been cases of super fast ACL recoveries. I think Wes Welker came back in like 4 months, but that’s incredibly rare. Adrian Peterson had about 8 months to bounce back, and even that was impressive. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason/727155/94 "2015-08-24T17:55:48Z")
The crackdown on HGH has coincided with the return to long ACL recoveries. Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason/727155/95 "2015-08-24T17:59:25Z")
It makes me wonder if we’re passing up on what could be really effective drug treatments to enhance the lives of lots of people because we’re not even willing to evaluate HGH and anabolic steroids due to some weird puritanical “you have to earn health the hard way way” attitude bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason/727155/96 "2015-08-24T18:39:53Z")
There’s always deer antler spray… ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason/727155/97 "2015-08-24T19:01:42Z")
Reggie Wayne signs 1 year deal with the Patriots - [Reggie Wayne, New England Patriots agree to deal - ESPN](http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/13501199/reggie-wayne-new-england-patriots-agree-deal) I haven’t watched his games recently, does he still have it? ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason/727155/98 "2015-08-25T01:06:17Z")
Andy Dalton is in mid-season form. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason/727155/99 "2015-08-25T01:15:18Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > It makes me wonder if we’re passing up on what could be really effective drug treatments to enhance the lives of lots of people because we’re not even willing to evaluate HGH and anabolic steroids due to some weird puritanical “you have to earn health the hard way way” attitude bullshit. What does this even mean? Just because athletes aren’t allowed to use them to gain a competitive advantage doesn’t mean that a doctor can’t treat people with them. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason/727155/100 "2015-08-26T17:25:31Z")
I don’t think I’ll ever get tired of seeing pictures of Jay Cutler looking [grubby and apathetic.](https://espngrantland.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/jay-cutler-2014-e1440478077617.jpg?w=750) If your Jay Cutler article doesn’t include a picture of him looking like a complete shitheel, then I’m not interested. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason/727155.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-preseason/727155.md?page=6)