I have one, Sapp’s, but it’s too big.
I rarely wear it because the fact that the sleeves go down to the middle of my forearms is a bit bothersome.
I haven’t found any that fit so far, but I wouldn’t want for you to go out and buy one just for me. Okay so maybe I would, but that’s not the point.
Wait, what was the point again?
Go Bucs
OH, I’m quite aware of that. In fact, if I weren’t a Packer fan, I’d probably hate Packer fans more than anybody else. Back when they were a Super Bowl contender every year and people were going on about who is “America’s Team” and all that crap I had that twitching vein in my forehead going nonstop whenever the topic came up. Dammit people, you are one of thirty-two! You may have special circumstances of how your team comes to exist, but you’re still only one of thirty-bleeping-two! Get off the goddam pedestal and join the rest of the human race!
And it’s about to go the way of the dodo, except that next year, the first year of the four division conferences, there will be one game. I do have a soft spot for the rivalry, though, along with GB-Detroit, because back when I started watching football it was that three way race for the cellar in the division. Oh, the good old days…
Hehehe. Chris Berman on NFL Tonight one time, back when they both sucked: “Next up, Tampa Bay vs. Green Bay. Truly, the bay of pigs.” hehehe
Browns fans “whined” hard enough to get that billionaire boys club of NFL owners to give us a new team. And we didn’t have to wait over a decade for some low life carpet bagger like Model to replace a low life carpet bagger like Irsay.
Cleveland/Baltimore will never be a major rival in my mind. I hate the Ravens current owner but the fact that he burned every bridge, along with 30+ years of good will built up in a community to morgage his way out of the financial problems that only tremendous mismanagement could get him in, and in the end still had to sell the team, is revenge enough.
Now Browns/Steelers on the other hand, that’s a rivalry that worth insulting someone’s ancestry, physiology, probable eating habits and general biological defects over. All in good fun of course.
Oh, yea. The guy who brokered the deal to move the team here wound up owning the new Browns, with a sweetheart deal from the NFL and a brand new stadium. And you call Model a carpetbagger. :rolleyes:
“There are none so blind as those who will not see”
Weirddave, carpet bagger is perhaps the kindest thing a Browns fan would call Model. I’m sure Irsay isn’t particularly popular in Charm city, and for the same reason.
It’s true that Al Lerner helped his former friend move the team, and he caught hell for it in the local media. But he was also instrumental in negotiating two points that were important to the local fan base. 1, we kept our name and colors. 2, we got an expansion franchise so we didn’t have to do to some other city the same thing that so aggrieved us.
Sure, the tax payers built the new stadium, but Cleveland isn’t the only city to spend a few hundred million to get/keep a team. Lerner wasn’t the only bidder for the new franchise, and since when is selling to the highest bidder a “sweetheart” deal? Or are you suggesting the NFL turned down more money from someone else?
Art Model planned to leave the name and tradition behind, where it belonged, from the get go. We certainly didn’t want to be the Baltimore Browns. He was advised to hold this back as a legal barganing chip, a shrewd bit of advice that turned out to be exactly what occured.
We were denied an expansion franchise, in spite of the fact that we had the strongest package on the table, and had no other choice. A couple of facts seem to convienently slip from Browns fan’s minds on this point. You said:
IF the situation in Cleveland was so good that only “tremendous mismanagement” caused the team to leave, the NFL would have awarded an expansion franchise immediately. The refused to do so until funding for a new stadium was guaranteed, an act which would have kept the Browns in town in the first place!!! As to Irsay vs Model, Bob Irsay held a press conference and stated that he was not going to move the team, period. He was, of course, drunk at the time. A few months later the Mayflower vans left in the middle of the night. Model told Cleveland that he couldn’t survive without a new stadium. Cleveland chose to take the Browns for granted, and Model did what he had to do. Big difference.
The NFL itself actually contributed millions of dollars to help finance the new stadium in Cleveland, something it has NEVER done anywhere else. That’s a sweetheart deal.
In essence, I agree. However if it wouldn’t have been a public relations problem I believe Model would have been all to happy to retain the name and colors.
And one of the NFL owners who sat on the expansion committee for that round of expansion, who had access to all the financial details of the various bids and who helped steer the two expansion franchises to Carolina and Jacksonville, was none other than Arthur B. Model. You “had no other choice” after (quite wrongfully) being past over for a team, and Model knew exactly what you would be willing to pay. May I say that it ended up being very convenient (and profitable) for Art that you didn’t get a team in a more honorable way.
You’re talking about a team that averaged close to 60k tickets sold per game during a 3 and 13 season, and sold out a 78k seat stadium more often than not if the team was above . 500, if the team had been in the playoffs the previous year, buy your tickets before the season started if you wanted a seat.
The larger portion of funding for the new stadium was secured before Model left town. There was never a question that the city of Cleveland and the surrounding county were all to willing to build a new shrine to the football gods, but even as the ballot initiative was being lobbied Model told us he was leaving anyway (the measure passed in spite of this).
As to Irsay vs Model, Art Model held a press conference and stated that was would never move the team, period. He was, of course lying at the time. This was after a year the Browns made it to the second round of the playoffs and, still a few months before the season, he still had some tickets to sell. But as was revealed later he had already arrived at what was substantially an agreement in principle with people in Baltimore when he promised he’d never leave.
A few months later the story broke (not from model initially) that the deal had been signed. From this point on Model actively (and unsuccessfully) attempted to sabotage the funding for a new stadium. There is one big difference between Art Model and Robert Irsey, the people of Baltimore root for Art Model.
Art knew he could get funding for a new stadium if he lobbied hard enough for it, what he couldn’t get from Cleveland was the franchise relocation fee, the money that Baltimore would have paid for and expansion team. I believe he hoped that money would be sufficient to get him out of the debt that, amazingly enough given his income level, had jeopardized not only his life style, but his credit ratting. Alas it didn’t, in spite of it all he still was so leveraged that the NFL grew tired of cosigning his debt and had he not sold majority ownership the league would have done it for him. Jacques de Molay, thou art again revenged.
All but a small token of that was a loan, being repaid by the new owner. And why was it done in the first place? We, as a city and a fan base acquired (almost) every phone number, fax number and e-mail address of every league office, team office and in some cases personal residences of owners and officials and engaged in what would later be called a massive Denial Of Service (DOS) attack. I personally hosted a site with numbers and addresses and was linked to many others doing the same. We came close to shutting down their communications infrastructure. THAT is what I meant when I said we “whined” hard enough for them to give us a new team. Had communications systems been the same when Baltimore lost the Colts, perhaps you could have done the same.
As long as we’re criticizing team owners, how about Al Davis?
“I want my team in Oakland…no, I want my team in Los Angeles…take the league to court, grudge match with Rozelle…maybe I’ll move them to Irwindale…no, I want to move back to Oakland…but then again, I think I’d rather take the team back to L.A…but in any case, I want everyone to know I retain all rights to the L.A. market.”