# NFL rule change: extra point from the 15 yard line **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 20, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rule-change-extra-point-from-the-15-yard-line/720431 "2015-05-20T16:21:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rule-change-extra-point-from-the-15-yard-line/720431/61 "2015-05-25T20:14:39Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I don’t understand what problem this is supposed to solve. Most of what the league seems to feel it addresses is the fact that there is, for all intents and purposes, zero drama in the PAT kick as it stands today. Last season, a grand total of eight PATs were missed all year (out of 1230 attempts). Because kickers, as a group, have gotten so good, even the weakest kickers in the league were _still_ dead close to perfect on PATs. The sentiment seemed to be that a play which was as close to preordained in its outcome as the PAT had become needed to be changed, to introduce at least some element of uncertainty (and, thus, interest) in the outcome. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rule-change-extra-point-from-the-15-yard-line/720431/62 "2015-05-25T21:18:17Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > What will moving the PAT back accomplish? As near as I can tell, just two things: > > 1. It’ll slightly (albeit probably not enough to matter) reduce the strategic value of attempting a two point conversion. Did you mean _increase_ the value here, **RJ**? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rule-change-extra-point-from-the-15-yard-line/720431/63 "2015-05-25T21:38:06Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > What football allows for now, which I think is the point Ellis Dee misses, is that there is a strategic decision to be made; either take one point you are nearly certain to get, or attempt to get two points you are not certain to get. Please do go on explaining football strategy to me. I hang on your every word, the wisdom is so vast. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rule-change-extra-point-from-the-15-yard-line/720431/64 "2015-05-26T00:24:01Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > What football allows for now, which I think is the point Ellis Dee misses, is that there is a strategic decision to be made; either take one point you are nearly certain to get, or attempt to get two points you are not certain to get. It offers a strategic decision that may come into significant play in some game contexts. It’s a good thing for the game. You seem to be suggesting that the harder PAT makes this less likely, but it’s obviously the opposite. If PATs were made into 50 yard field goals and the percentage went down to 72 or whatever, then obviously 2 point conversions would become much more appealing. A reliable PAT discourages going for two, a less reliable PAT makes the 2 point conversion more favorable. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rule-change-extra-point-from-the-15-yard-line/720431/65 "2015-05-26T00:30:42Z")
The point, Ellis, is that if your idea is implemented, there’s less strategy. You are removing a decision. There’s nothing to decide; you get seven points and try for an eighth. The current system at least has a decision involved (no matter where the PAT is attempted from.) ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rule-change-extra-point-from-the-15-yard-line/720431/66 "2015-05-26T19:42:42Z")
Here is the point that everyone is missing. If I go for 1 and the kicker misses it, that’s his fault. If the coach decides to go for 2 and doesn’t make it, that’s his fault. Coaches very rarely take risks like that because his job is on the line. ---
**Author:** ![ekweizn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7c8e57/32.png) [@ekweizn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekweizn)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rule-change-extra-point-from-the-15-yard-line/720431/67 "2015-05-26T20:14:02Z")
Is anyone other than Chip Kelly going to go for two on a regular basis? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rule-change-extra-point-from-the-15-yard-line/720431/68 "2015-05-26T21:27:51Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Here is the point that everyone is missing. If I go for 1 and the kicker misses it, that’s his fault. If the coach decides to go for 2 and doesn’t make it, that’s his fault. Coaches very rarely take risks like that because his job is on the line. It’s been demonstrated time and again that coaches are far too conservative to do things like go for two or go for it and 4th-and-X. And you hit the reason bang on; a coach does not coach to win, he coaches to keep his job. I misspoke before; moving the PAT to the 15 does (very slightly) increase the appeal of the 2-point conversion. But if the numbers being used here are correct it’s a very small difference. Moving the PAT to the 25 or the 30 would make things interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rule-change-extra-point-from-the-15-yard-line/720431/69 "2015-05-27T17:34:08Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > No it is impossible to score only a single point as you can’t score the extra point unless you make a touchdown first. In college you can score a single point if on an extra point attempt, you get what would normally be a safety. And in the CFL a single point, the rouge, is possible. IIRC in the NFL if a team forfeits then the game is officially scored as 1-0 (or 0-1 as the case may be). ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rule-change-extra-point-from-the-15-yard-line/720431/70 "2015-05-27T18:38:25Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > IIRC in the NFL if a team forfeits then the game is officially scored as 1-0 (or 0-1 as the case may be). True, but you still can’t get a score of 1-1, 2-1, 3-1, 4-1, 5-1, etc. In college you can potentially get 6-1 (or any score greater than 6-1)(defensive safety on a conversion attempt) but it’s massively unlikely and has never happened. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rule-change-extra-point-from-the-15-yard-line/720431/71 "2015-05-27T20:28:21Z")
How about this? A touchdown is worth 7 points (I think 2 FGs + 1 is an important dynamic) but then a required one point try from the 2 yard line. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rule-change-extra-point-from-the-15-yard-line/720431/72 "2015-05-27T20:40:12Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > How about this? A touchdown is worth 7 points (I think 2 FGs + 1 is an important dynamic) but then a required one point try from the 2 yard line. ETA: same as EliisDee ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rule-change-extra-point-from-the-15-yard-line/720431/73 "2015-05-27T21:12:26Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > IIRC in the NFL if a team forfeits then the game is officially scored as 1-0 (or 0-1 as the case may be). 2-0 in the NFL, although the points do not count for any end-of-season tiebreakers or “strength of schedule” purposes. NCAA is 1-0, and I think high school is 1-0 as well. Note that, in all cases, if the forfeiting team was behind when they forfeited, whatever the score was at the time is the final score. > [@fachverwirrt](#): > > True, but you still can’t get a score of 1-1, 2-1, 3-1, 4-1, 5-1, etc. In college you can potentially get 6-1 (or any score greater than 6-1)(defensive safety on a conversion attempt) but it’s massively unlikely and has never happened. You can’t get a score of 7-1, since scoring the 1-point safety means the team that scored the touchdown didn’t convert its PAT. 8-1 is possible, with 6-1 followed by a safety. Also, in high school, they changed the rules a few years ago to make it clear that the team that didn’t score the touchdown can’t score any points on the try. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rule-change-extra-point-from-the-15-yard-line/720431.md?page=3)