# NFL rules about catches? \[edited\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 27, 2017, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rules-about-catches-edited/805385 "2017-12-27T16:42:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rules-about-catches-edited/805385/41 "2017-12-30T04:39:40Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > There was one call a few years ago that still bothers me. A corner dives for a pass, grabs it a foot off the ground, does a tumble and comes up with the pick. What bothers me is that, though he had the ball firmly in both hands, his dive carried the ball straight into the turf. There is no way in hell that one could say he kept the ball off the ground (his hands were on both sides of it, not around it), which is part of catching a pass. I thought it should not have been a catch, but the refs thought otherwise. You don’t need to keep it off the ground, If you first have control of the ball,it can touch the ground as long as it doesn’t come loose. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![aktep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f0a364/32.png) [@aktep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aktep)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rules-about-catches-edited/805385/42 "2017-12-30T05:21:21Z")
Yeah one of the changes a few years ago was that the ball could touch the ground as long as you had firm control of it and don’t use the ground to secure control or lose control. Prior to that, any touching of the ground in the process of catching could be incomplete. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rules-about-catches-edited/805385/43 "2017-12-30T05:40:37Z")
Yes. James’ problem wasn’t simply that the ball hit the ground - it was that he quite clearly was bobbling the ball as it hit the ground. I think there can be no doubt whatsoever that the ruling of an incompletion was correct according to the current rules. Whether those rules are optimal is a separate question. Apparently, one of the NFL’s objectives is that the standards for a valid reception should be the same both in and outside the endzone. So any proposed rule must not include mention of such things as crossing the goal line. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rules-about-catches-edited/805385/44 "2017-12-30T20:02:33Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > It’s only a catch at the 2 yard line if he maintains control all the way to the ground. By concentrating on the holding on to the ball instead of lunging for the end zone he probably would have kept the ball from shifting and hitting the ground; and it would have been a catch. The rule is the same whether he’s he’s lunging for the end zone or on the 2. > > However, all scoring plays are automatically reviewed. If the play ended on the 2 and it wasn’t challenged by the Patriots then the ruling on the field would have stood most likely, no matter what happened. Right, but let’s say that he catches the ball at the 2 and just stands there. Ten seconds later a defender hits him and James falls to the ground, the ball hits the ground and comes out. It’s a complete pass, right? If the defender hits him 1/2 second later and the same thing happens, it is an incomplete pass. Agreed? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rules-about-catches-edited/805385/45 "2017-12-30T21:39:22Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > If the defender hits him 1/2 second later and the same thing happens, it is an incomplete pass. Agreed? Probably but not necessarily. It depends on if it looks like he fully possessed/controlled the ball in that half second. Again, it’s a purely subjective judgment on the part of the officials. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rules-about-catches-edited/805385/46 "2017-12-30T22:47:16Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > It depends on if it looks like he fully possessed/controlled the ball in that half second. AIUI, the standard is is not “fully possessed/controlled the ball”. Rather, the official would judge whether the fall to the ground (that resulted in the ball coming loose) was part of the act of catching the ball, or not. If yes, it’s incomplete. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rules-about-catches-edited/805385/47 "2017-12-31T01:38:25Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > I clicked on the video expecting a controversial play, but what I saw was the exact poster-child example of what is never a catch in the NFL, you have to maintain control upon impact with the ground. > > I would hardly classify that as “screwed”. In my lifetime that would have been considered a catch. Every time they “clarify” the rules they get more esoteric to the point that you get the Bert Emmanuel rule, the Calvin Johnson rule, and the Dez Bryant rule, which is a hybrid of the first two. The bottom line is that what everybody watching the game perceives to be a catch is overturned with game-altering results, and people are getting tired of it. But what do I know? I’m just a Steelers homer, right? Apparently, so are a significant percentage of NFL fans. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rules-about-catches-edited/805385/48 "2017-12-31T02:16:03Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Right, but let’s say that he catches the ball at the 2 and just stands there. Ten seconds later a defender hits him and James falls to the ground, the ball hits the ground and comes out. It’s a complete pass, right? Surviving the ground is only part of the process if the receiver cannot prevent himself from falling to the ground. If you catch the ball and can run with it without falling then than catch is complete. If you dive for a ball, or the act of extending for the ball means your going to fall to the ground, then you have to survive the fall. If you can’t catch the ball without hitting the ground, then you have to maintain control all the way. By standing up under control, the pass is complete and the receiver has become a runner. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rules-about-catches-edited/805385/49 "2017-12-31T03:10:39Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > In my lifetime that would have been considered a catch. Every time they “clarify” the rules they get more esoteric to the point that you get the Bert Emmanuel rule, the Calvin Johnson rule, and the Dez Bryant rule, which is a hybrid of the first two. The ground contact component has been there since 1982, that’s 35 years, seems like long enough for everyone to get used to it. > [@](#): > > The bottom line is that what everybody watching the game perceives to be a catch is overturned with game-altering results, and people are getting tired of it. I’ll give you that he had control long enough that there could be an alternate rule in which the play is reasonably considered a catch, meaning you wouldn’t have everyone screaming and crying about a non-catch being allowed. But I think it’s pretty challenging to allow this one without allowing a bunch that shouldn’t be a catch. Or alternatively, creating a very subjective rule that gets applied differently by different officials. So, what rule do you think would be better? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rules-about-catches-edited/805385/50 "2017-12-31T04:26:20Z")
Hey, there should just be a rule that if any player touches the ball with a hand or part of a hand, it is a live ball. Watch the fumble count go through the ceiling. ---
**Author:** ![Tread](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Tread](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tread)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rules-about-catches-edited/805385/51 "2017-12-31T05:03:59Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > And in CFB, the ground absolutely cannot cause a fumble, because the player with the ball is always down when they hit the ground and cannot get up even untouched. So runner breaks free, running towards end zone, trips,( or is knocked down by defender) as he is falling the first thing to make contact with field is the ball, and it pops loose before any part of runner touched ground, What is the ruling, if not a fumble? ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rules-about-catches-edited/805385/52 "2017-12-31T20:44:18Z")
> [@Tread](#): > > So runner breaks free, running towards end zone, trips,( or is knocked down by defender) as he is falling the first thing to make contact with field is the ball, and it pops loose before any part of runner touched ground, > > What is the ruling, if not a fumble? Fumble. It’s also a fumble if his non-ball hand hits first and then the ball hits and is knocked loose, because feet and hands are the only body parts that can touch the ground without being considered down. ---
**Author:** ![Tread](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Tread](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tread)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2018, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rules-about-catches-edited/805385/53 "2018-01-05T15:22:53Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Fumble. > > It’s also a fumble if his non-ball hand hits first and then the ball hits and is knocked loose, because feet and hands are the only body parts that can touch the ground without being considered down. Yes, I agree. My question was to the poster who stated " _ **in CFB, the ground absolutely cannot cause a fumble** _" ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rules-about-catches-edited/805385/54 "2018-01-09T14:39:37Z")
> [@Tread](#): > > Yes, I agree. My question was to the poster who stated " _ **in CFB, the ground absolutely cannot cause a fumble** _" This actually may be right, in college football when you’re down your down. In the NFL you need to be down by contact so the ground can cause a fumble. I’ll download the NCAA rulebook and see. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rules-about-catches-edited/805385/55 "2018-01-09T14:49:10Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > This actually may be right, in college football when you’re down your down. In the NFL you need to be down by contact so the ground can cause a fumble. > > I’ll download the NCAA rulebook and see. Too late to edit. ETA: Ground can cause a fumble in college football. Rule 4-1-3b ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2018, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rules-about-catches-edited/805385/56 "2018-01-14T00:42:19Z")
Anyone watching Philadelphia-Atlanta? Why was that a catch, but James’ not? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2018, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rules-about-catches-edited/805385/57 "2018-01-14T00:52:07Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Anyone watching Philadelphia-Atlanta? Why was that a catch, but James’ not? Which catch? The first one looked to me like a non-catch. The second one just didn’t look like there was enough evidence to overturn. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2018, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rules-about-catches-edited/805385/58 "2018-01-14T00:53:59Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Which catch? The first one looked to me like a non-catch. The second one just didn’t look like there was enough evidence to overturn. The last one near the 2 yard line. Receiver goes to the ground, ball moves…just like James. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-rules-about-catches-edited/805385.md?page=2)