# NFL Time Yet **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 19, 2009, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-time-yet/503553 "2009-07-19T21:12:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-time-yet/503553/21 "2009-07-20T23:20:33Z")
Always good to know Al Davis & Co. can ruin football for several fanbases, not simply grown men in plastic Skeletor masks. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-time-yet/503553/22 "2009-07-20T23:27:54Z")
I’m a lapsed Niner fan who is maybe possibly going to peek through his fingers and root for them this season (got the Sunday Ticket, yeah). ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-time-yet/503553/23 "2009-07-20T23:34:02Z")
Chargers should be good this year. Of course, they should’ve been good the last couple years, and we know how that turned out. Of course if the Chargers notoriously underperform, the rest of the division notoriously underperforms worse. Packers could be good, could be bad. I think they did the right long term thing in making the change to Capers, but I think there will be some transition pains, plus the Vikings could be scary. The whole division is kind of in turmoil, so it is hard to say what’s going to happen. Inter-divisional games between Culpepper and Farve would be funny, though I don’t know who Detroit is going to start. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-time-yet/503553/24 "2009-07-21T00:26:45Z")
Saints have questions to answer in camp at RB, and DB as usual. Coming off yet another mediocre season, they need a spark to revitalize the team. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-time-yet/503553/25 "2009-07-21T00:33:21Z")
> [@Birdmonster](#): > > Always good to know Al Davis & Co. can ruin football for several fanbases, not simply grown men in plastic Skeletor masks. That is so funny. Like anyone is fearing the “black hole denizens” with Darth Vader spiked armor anymore (or for that matter, grown men with dog masks waving around a bone in the “Dawg Pound”). ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-time-yet/503553/26 "2009-07-21T00:37:57Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > That is so funny. Like anyone is fearing the “black hole denizens” with Darth Vader spiked armor anymore (or for that matter, grown men with dog masks waving around a bone in the “Dawg Pound”). Yeah, I’m pretty dissapointed that the pound didn’t swallow up Chad Johnson and savagely anally rape him when he did his little stunt. To their credit, someone did piss in a cup and dump it all over him and he wasn’t pleased. If he had jumped to a random spot, instead of a prearranged stunt with a bunch of media whores, it may have gone better. ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-time-yet/503553/27 "2009-07-21T03:09:29Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > So now Eli has no receivers. _gulp_ My own logic has painted me into a corner where I can’t make excuses for him. I’m cautiously optimistic, though; he passed fine after Plax went down. It was the running game that tanked. Eli was pretty mediocre in the five games after Burress went down. There has been a lot of whispering and wondering if he could do anything without a stud WR because he very clearly didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-time-yet/503553/28 "2009-07-21T05:24:53Z")
> [@Jules\_Andre](#): > > Eli was pretty mediocre in the five games after Burress went down. There has been a lot of whispering and wondering if he could do anything without a stud WR because he very clearly didn’t. I have no problem with an Eagles fan counting Eli out. Just be aware that your opinion on his performance last year without Burress isn’t the gospel truth. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-time-yet/503553/29 "2009-07-21T14:41:57Z")
Just for the record: 18 touchdowns, 7 picks in 11 games with Burress; 3 TDs and 3 picks in 5 games without. 62% completion percentage with Burress, 56% without. 210.8 yards per game with Burress, 183.8 YPG without. 6.9 yards per attempt with Burress, 6.47 YPA without. Sacked 1.18 times per game with Burress, 2.8 times per game without.\* And, of course, the kicker: 10-1 with Burress, 2-3 without. Since my opinion isn’t gospel truth either, I simply offer these statistics without comment. \*It should be noted that 8 of the 14 post-Burress sacks came in one game against Dallas. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-time-yet/503553/30 "2009-07-21T20:07:58Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Just for the record: > > 18 touchdowns, 7 picks in 11 games with Burress; 3 TDs and 3 picks in 5 games without. > > 62% completion percentage with Burress, 56% without. > > 210.8 yards per game with Burress, 183.8 YPG without. > > 6.9 yards per attempt with Burress, 6.47 YPA without. > > Sacked 1.18 times per game with Burress, 2.8 times per game without.\* > > And, of course, the kicker: 10-1 with Burress, 2-3 without. > > Since my opinion isn’t gospel truth either, I simply offer these statistics without comment. > > \*It should be noted that 8 of the 14 post-Burress sacks came in one game against Dallas. That’s the kind of efficiency I’m hoping for from Eli this year. 🙂 As for the Cowboys? As much talent(or more) as any team in the league. Can they get over the drama and figure out how to use it all? That’s the great unknown. I think a lot will depend if the O-line figures itself out, but that’s the key point for 90% of the teams in the league. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-time-yet/503553/31 "2009-07-21T20:18:53Z")
Meanwhile, Ben Roethlisberger has made headlines for being [sued](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/07/21/roethlisberger.lawsuit/index.html) for a sexual assault. Sounds like a rehash of the '90s Cowboys. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-time-yet/503553/32 "2009-07-21T22:09:30Z")
Here in NE, the big question is, of course, is Tom Brady healed from his devastating knee injury, and will he return to form? If he plays to his usual standard, the Pats are the obvious favorite to win the division. If not, it will be a dogfight in a surprisingly resurgent AFC East. Also, if he has to miss any games due to injury, who the hell are they going to play at QB? The backup QB situation is frightening, Brady’s and Cassel’s stories notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-time-yet/503553/33 "2009-07-21T22:48:14Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Yeah, I’m pretty dissapointed that the pound didn’t swallow up Chad Johnson and savagely anally rape him when he did his little stunt. To their credit, someone did piss in a cup and dump it all over him and he wasn’t pleased. > > If he had jumped to a random spot, instead of a prearranged stunt with a bunch of media whores, it may have gone better. I remember that. What an idiot Chad is. But he’s on my team, so I am forced to root for the guy to have a resurgent season. I think if Palmer stays healthy, the Bengals wideouts are going to put up some insane numbers this year. Whether or not that translates into wins remains to be seen. Our oline is being reshuffled, so that can go either way. If Andre Smith gets signed soon and gets into camp on time, I can see a revived running game as well. I also think the Bengals defense, with another year under Mike Zimmer as well as the development of current players, recovery from injuries (Keith Rivers) and the addition of the likes of Roy Williams and Rey Maulaluga is possibly going to propel the Bengals defense into the top ten in the league, a place they haven’t sniffed in eons. The building blocks are there, the right coordinator is in place. We’ll see. I either see a remarkable turnaround on both sides of the ball ending up in a wildcard slot, or a return to an 8-8 season. I think Cleveland is going to suck bigtime next season. I’d predict they win about 5 games next year. Of course, my hopes for the Bengals all ride on #9 staying healthy and playing the whole year, which isn’t a guarantee at all given his injury history. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-time-yet/503553/34 "2009-07-21T23:56:36Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > As for the Cowboys? As much talent(or more) as any team in the league. There’s about 8-12 teams whose rosters I would take over Cowboys’. 2 of them are in the same division. Cowboys are hyped because of who they are. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-time-yet/503553/35 "2009-07-22T02:53:58Z")
The defending NFC Champions Arizona Cardinals seem well positioned to make another Super Bowl. We need Wells to be an upgrade in the backfield as Hightower was a disappointment. Fitzgerald and Boldin will again be the most dominant wide receiver combination in the NFL. The big question is Kurt Warner. He had a great year last year, but that Jets game still sticks in my mind. Warner was supposedly considering retirement after that bad loss and the previous week’s loss to the Redskins. Hopefully, the Cards will get Leinart some more playing time this year so they can see if he’s a successor to Warner. The Cardinals have a much easier schedule this year. No Sunday games against the Super Bowl champions followed by a Thursday game against the Eagles. No East Coast snow games in December. Last two games of the year at home. I’m not expecting much from the Rams and don’t think Seattle will be much better. SF is the most improved team in the NFC West. Still, I think the Cards can split the two games with the 49ers and then take the rest of the division games. ---
**Author:** ![Starbreaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac8455/32.png) [@Starbreaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starbreaker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-time-yet/503553/36 "2009-07-22T16:23:10Z")
I’m a big Bears fan. I’m starting to get anxious to see how Cutler is going to play. ---
**Author:** ![bauble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f6c823/32.png) [@bauble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bauble)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-time-yet/503553/37 "2009-07-22T17:40:40Z")
Cautiously optimistic Chiefs fan checking in. I’m hoping our new coach (Todd Haley) will make some changes for the better (and coming from a 2-14 season, that shouldn’t take a lot). Oh, well: I’m going to watch them, no matter how well or poorly they play. ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-time-yet/503553/38 "2009-07-23T02:59:41Z")
Posted before I noticed everything was already mentioned earlier, sorry! ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-time-yet/503553/39 "2009-07-23T03:01:06Z")
Double post ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-time-yet/503553/40 "2009-07-23T03:02:24Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > And, of course, the kicker: 10-1 with Burress, 2-3 without. > > Since my opinion isn’t gospel truth either, I simply offer these statistics without comment. > > \*It should be noted that 8 of the 14 post-Burress sacks came in one game against Dallas. Dude, at least get your facts straight. Burress only played in 10 games, not 11, and in one of those ten (against Arizona) he went down early in the first quarter. I’m guessing you included the Seahawks game in your “with Burress” stats? Yeah, that was a career day for Eli. Burress was suspended that game for conduct detrimental to the team. And of course Eli had a solid effort against Arizona without the help of Burress, who as I said before went down in the first quarter. I say from watching every game with my own eyes that Eli was fine without Burress, but since you aren’t a Giants fan I suppose you want objective evidence. Are you a fan at all of Football Outsiders? They have an interesting take on this debate. Here it is in [pdf form](http://www.footballoutsiders.com/files/Football%20Outsiders%20Almanac%202009%20-%20NYG.pdf). (Great read for Giants fans, btw.) > [@](#): > > The correlation of [Burress shooting himself] to the team’s downswing in performance yielded a simple narrative: The Giants offense wasn’t as good without Plaxico Burress, and it turned them into a totally different team. > > That narrative is simply untrue. > > The Giants’ passing offense actually improved with Burress out of the lineup (Table 1). That analysis includes the Week 12 game against the Cardinals, in which Burress came out in the first quarter with a hamstring injury and didn’t return, as well as the NFC Divisional Round loss to the Eagles. Burress was also suspended for the Week 5 game against the Seahawks; if you include this 44-6 victory, the Burress-free passing game looks even more impressive. The running game declined some without the threat of Burress stretching the field to concern opposing safeties, but it wasn’t enough to drag the offense down; the team’s offensive DVOA was 20.6% with Burress in the lineup and 27.8% over the eight games he wasn’t around. > > Although the Giants scored 27.5 points per game with Burress in the lineup and 23.8 when he was sidelined (including the Cardinals and Seahawks games), they played a harder slate of defenses. The average defensive DVOA of the teams that faced them when they had Burress was -2.1%; without Burress, the average team they faced had a -5.9% defensive DVOA. > > Instead, what drove the Giants’ demise was the defense. Unless you want to pin the blame on Antonio Pierce’s extracurricular issues related to the Burress incident, Burress had nothing to do with the decline. Instead, it was a regression in the team’s sack rate that correlated well with the team’s dip in performance, culminating in the playoff game versus the Eagles in which — despite playing behind an offensive line missing multiple starters — Donovan McNabb was not sacked once (although a hurry led to an intentional grounding penalty in the end zone). Their conclusion is that the front seven just got tired, plain and simple. The return of Osi in 2009 should mostly fix that, plus they brought in a LB and two DTs in free agency. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-time-yet/503553.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-time-yet/503553.md?page=3)