# NFL toughens stance on domestic violence **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 29, 2014, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-toughens-stance-on-domestic-violence/696845 "2014-08-29T10:18:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-toughens-stance-on-domestic-violence/696845/21 "2014-08-29T16:50:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Loach** : > > The part that jumps out at me is “is found.” By whom? Do they have to wait till the court case is complete? If the charges are dropped will they still go forward with the league punishment? Who makes the determination? Or, on the flip side, even if he does get convicted, maybe the NFL won’t “find” him to have done it so he can keep playing. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-toughens-stance-on-domestic-violence/696845/22 "2014-08-29T16:54:20Z")
Here’s the actual section from Goodell’s letter: > [@](#): > > If someone is charged with domestic > violence or sexual assault, there will be a mandatory evaluation and, where professionally > indicated, counseling or other specialized services. Effective immediately, violations of the > Personal Conduct Policy regarding assault, battery, domestic violence or sexual assault > that involve physical force will be subject to a suspension without pay of six games for a > first offense, with consideration given to mitigating factors, as well as a longer suspension > when circumstances warrant. Among the circumstances that would merit a more severe > penalty would be a prior incident before joining the NFL, or violence involving a weapon, > choking, repeated striking, or when the act is committed against a pregnant woman or in > the presence of a child. A second offense will result in banishment from the NFL; while an > individual may petition for reinstatement after one year, there will be no presumption or > assurance that the petition will be granted. These disciplinary standards will apply to all > NFL personnel. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-toughens-stance-on-domestic-violence/696845/23 "2014-08-29T18:08:35Z")
This is a ridiculous overreaction. A potential lifetime ban for a second misdemeanor offense? If it was limited to felony convictions, I’d be ok with it. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-toughens-stance-on-domestic-violence/696845/24 "2014-08-29T19:49:45Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Here’s the actual section from Goodell’s letter: That doesn’t answer any of the questions as to how it will be carried out. As a private entity they of course don’t have to follow due process. But will they? Will they wait for something to go through the courts? Will they suspend on an allegation? It’s possible that the legal process may go on long after a particular season is over. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-toughens-stance-on-domestic-violence/696845/25 "2014-08-29T20:06:13Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > This is a ridiculous overreaction. A potential lifetime ban for a second misdemeanor offense? If it was limited to felony convictions, I’d be ok with it. This. This move is any extraordinarily stupid one. The NFL absolutely shit the bed on the initial Ray Rice suspension, but I bet they thought they were doing the right thing at the time based on the context they learned from Ray Rice. Of course the knee jerk reaction is that Ray Rice is pure, unadulterated evil, but in the real world shit happens. Its shocking that we haven’t yet learned that zero tolerance and 3 strikes rules are stupid, destructive, counter-productive policies in all cases. You know some poor bastard is going to get banned for life because of a drunken shoving match or a trumped up divorce settlement tactic. And really, it will do nothing to stop wife beaters, since you know, they don’t stop and think about the consequences in the heat of the moment. People that beat women have lots of emotional and mental issues, it’s not some calculation they are doing where there’s some pro-vs-con rationale happening. Holy crap, the NFL is fucking stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-toughens-stance-on-domestic-violence/696845/26 "2014-08-29T20:10:04Z")
Plus, what if the bitch had it coming? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-toughens-stance-on-domestic-violence/696845/27 "2014-08-29T20:28:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Plus, what if the bitch had it coming? Yeah, I can’t figure out what other “context” there might be. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-toughens-stance-on-domestic-violence/696845/28 "2014-08-29T20:30:05Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > As the generator of the “bullshit” I think it is a legitimate concern that will likely happen. If the NFL stance is formed with the possibility in mind, maybe they can preempt the situation. Agreed. If you live on some naive fantasy world where people don’t actually operate in their own self-interests, please send me the address. Would love to visit sometime. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-toughens-stance-on-domestic-violence/696845/29 "2014-08-29T20:33:41Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Yeah, I can’t figure out what other “context” there might be. Oh please. Its unquestionably wrong for someone and kill someone else, right? Then why don’t we just send every single person who kills someone to the electric chair. Why even have a trial? I mean, its wrong, who cares about context. This isn’t kindergarten, people. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-toughens-stance-on-domestic-violence/696845/30 "2014-08-29T20:42:23Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Oh please. Its unquestionably wrong for someone and kill someone else, right? Then why don’t we just send every single person who kills someone to the electric chair. Why even have a trial? I mean, its wrong, who cares about context. > > This isn’t kindergarten, people. Do share. Under what circumstances would it be OK to beat your wife? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-toughens-stance-on-domestic-violence/696845/31 "2014-08-29T20:45:39Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Do share. Under what circumstances would it be OK to beat your wife? If he can come up with a good excuse, I guess: > [@Omniscient](#): > > The NFL absolutely shit the bed on the initial Ray Rice suspension, but I bet they thought they were doing the right thing at the time based on the context they learned from Ray Rice. The NFL fucked up royally in the Rice matter. If they thought they were doing the right thing based on information from Rice, that means they fucked up twice. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-toughens-stance-on-domestic-violence/696845/32 "2014-08-29T20:50:09Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Do share. Under what circumstances would it be OK to beat your wife? Beat? That’s a loaded term. Hit? Self-defense. Now that I’ve taken your bait, please trot out your super sexist comment about women being completely harmless creatures who could never pose a threat…I’m waiting. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-toughens-stance-on-domestic-violence/696845/33 "2014-08-29T20:53:23Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If he can come up with a good excuse, I guess: > > The NFL fucked up royally in the Rice matter. If they thought they were doing the right thing based on information from Rice, that means they fucked up twice. Fact is, not a single one of the people in the peanut gallery saw Ray Rice hit her. We’re inferring it based on context. I suppose that’s good enough to ruin lives. Oh, wait, who cares about context, that’s just an excuse. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-toughens-stance-on-domestic-violence/696845/34 "2014-08-29T20:53:24Z")
Domestic abuse as the new civil rights? I can’t say I like it, **Omniscient** , but it’s groundbreaking. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-toughens-stance-on-domestic-violence/696845/35 "2014-08-29T21:36:35Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Domestic abuse as the new civil rights? I can’t say I like it, **Omniscient** , but it’s groundbreaking. Aren’t you one of the lawyers on the board? I don’t think this country needs more heavy handed punishment doled out by dispassionate bureaucracy. Basically the NFL, but dictating this course of action, is admitting it’s too incompetent to actually punish people appropriately on case-by-case basis. While evidence suggests that’s true, should they really be the ones defining the policy then? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-toughens-stance-on-domestic-violence/696845/36 "2014-08-29T21:44:22Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Aren’t you one of the lawyers on the board? I’m not a lawyer, no. > [@](#): > > Basically the NFL, but dictating this course of action, is admitting it’s too incompetent to actually punish people appropriately on case-by-case basis. While, evidence suggests that’s true, should they really be the ones defining the policy then? Yes, the NFL has proven itself utterly incompetent at this kind of thing. That’s why they periodically have to come up with new rules in response to a public backlash. Here’s the problem: doing nothing would also be incompetent. And it’d arguably be immoral, too. My advice would be to save your pity for the people who actually get hurt here. A couple of weeks ago the NFL saw footage of Ray Rice dragging his unconscious fiancee out of an elevator and said “what, we have to do something? OK, two games sounds about right.” I think it’s unlikely they are about to become overzealous in the prosecution of domestic abusers. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-toughens-stance-on-domestic-violence/696845/37 "2014-08-29T22:16:11Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yes, the NFL has proven itself utterly incompetent at this kind of thing. That’s why they periodically have to come up with new rules in response to a public backlash. Here’s the problem: doing nothing would also be incompetent. And it’d arguably be immoral, too. My advice would be to save your pity for the people who actually get hurt here. A couple of weeks ago the NFL saw footage of Ray Rice dragging his unconscious fiancee out of an elevator and said “what, we have to do something? OK, two games sounds about right.” I think it’s unlikely they are about to become overzealous in the prosecution of domestic abusers. They have a few options. 1. Keep doing what they are doing, and dictate punishment on non-CBA infractions on a case-by-case basis, learn from past mistakes and re-evaluate in a year or two. 2. Have a knee jerk reaction to public outcry and institute a draconian penalty in a fit of damage control. 3. Wait, let the emotions settle, consult with a few third parties, have a debate, and finally decide how to build some type of system that a. educates people, b. discourages offenders, c. provides a fair system to arbitrate and review. Clearly they fucked up, but choice #2 just flat out compounds the problem without actually doing anything to solve the problem. It’s a PR decision, not a policy decision or reform plan. Choice one probably would have been okay since this hasn’t exactly generated outrage up until now. Hell, they could have gone back and adjusted the Ray Rice punishment, nothing was stopping them. Choice 3 is the smart but expensive choice, it’s not exactly a bullet proof example but this is what the CBA accomplished for drug offenses and it at least institutes a program to help people recover. I’d love to know what you people think happened in the room when the NFL debated the 2 game suspension. Do you think they decided it over a game of cards at a strip club? Do you think they were so dumb as to think that no one would compare the this suspension to the Josh Gordon one? Do you think they beat their own wives and viewed this as just one of those things? Or do you think the video in the elevator, the stories of eye witnesses, the stories from the cops and the stories of the couple made them say…wow, that’s some fucked up shit. We’ve got to do something… but this isn’t a black and white situation? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-toughens-stance-on-domestic-violence/696845/38 "2014-08-29T22:22:14Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I’d love to know what you people think happened in the room when the NFL debated the 2 game suspension. Do you think they decided it over a game of cards at a strip club? Do you think they were so dumb as to think that no one would compare the this suspension to the Josh Gordon one? Do you think they beat their own wives and viewed this as just one of those things? I think they looked at the facts in front of them and figured a two-game suspension would satisfy their fans. Consider how fucked up that really is. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-toughens-stance-on-domestic-violence/696845/39 "2014-08-29T22:26:43Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I think they looked at the facts in front of them and figured a two-game suspension would satisfy their fans. Consider how fucked up that really is. I don’t think anyone is stupid enough to think the fans would be satisfied by this. It’s not like they had no access to the internet in the interim. If that assumption is right, then they (rightfully) didn’t give a shit what the fans thought and tried to do what was just. On the other hand, if all they cared about was making the fans happy and they thought this would do it, well that’s fucked up in like 5 different ways and I’m shocked these people remember to breathe at night. Which further supports my point that the odds of this new policy being a smart one are essentially nil. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-toughens-stance-on-domestic-violence/696845/40 "2014-08-29T22:31:19Z")
I think it’s nice that you think the NFL took a careful and balanced look at the facts in this case, decided in its Solomonic wisdom that a two-week suspension was the just solution- even though they were almost immediately forced to admit they fucked up and adopt much harsher penalties than the ones they had chosen to impose on Rice. I doubt they were that thoughtful. I think they decided a two-week suspension would satisfy the public because it would send the message that the NFL took this seriously. It did not and does not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-toughens-stance-on-domestic-violence/696845.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-toughens-stance-on-domestic-violence/696845.md?page=3)