# NFL Training camps and preseason **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 2, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059 "2009-08-02T14:55:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/421 "2009-09-06T22:34:41Z")
Whew. Both Brohm and Meredith were signed to the Packers practice squad (but not Terrell Sutton. He was claimed off waivers by Carolina). Not bad developmental guys, but I was sure hoping that the rumors of Meredith not really giving a shit about football weren’t true. Still waiting for his light to come on. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/422 "2009-09-06T23:04:51Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > [Patriots trade DL Richard Seymour to Raiders for 2011 1st round pick.](http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4450767) 2011? I’ve never heard of trading for a draft pick two years out. Is it a misprint, y’think, or did the Patriots really want no compensation for Seymour whatsoever during the next two seasons? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/423 "2009-09-06T23:12:02Z")
Maybe they offered either a 2nd next year or first in 2011. Bellichick is one of the few coaches that’s sufficiently long term minded to take the better deal over the faster gratification. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/424 "2009-09-07T02:33:49Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > 2011? I’ve never heard of trading for a draft pick two years out. Is it a misprint, y’think, or did the Patriots really want no compensation for Seymour whatsoever during the next two seasons? Boston Globe confirms 2011. Seems crazy to me. The Globe article I was reading was suggesting that this move was prompted by the Pats having many players with contracts expiring after this season, and so they decided to get the max value for Seymour while they could. I can’t say I’m happy about it. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/425 "2009-09-07T02:37:15Z")
I think that Bellicheat is a goddamn genius. He knows that with the awesomeness that is Heyward-Bey, the Raiders are going to win more games than expected this season, making their first rounder less valuable than it will be in 2011 due to the Raiders inevitable collapse back into the cellar of the NFL. Or something. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/426 "2009-09-07T10:58:03Z")
Yeah, seriously. I expect the Raiders to improve to a solid 6-10 or so team this year, then break through with an 8-8 or even 9-7 season in 2010. Not becoming a great team or anything, mind you, but a modest success story on par with the Dolphins. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/427 "2009-09-07T11:31:50Z")
In most cases that would be a totally reasonable thing to expect, but I bet that Belichick is counting on the Raiders franchise being such a completely dysfunctional fucking mess that they can’t be counted on to regress to the mean, and will probably be in the top quarter of the 1st Round in '11. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/428 "2009-09-07T13:24:05Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Yeah, seriously. I expect the Raiders to improve to a solid 6-10 or so team this year, then break through with an 8-8 or even 9-7 season in 2010. Not becoming a great team or anything, mind you, but a modest success story on par with the Dolphins. Why? With the exeption of getting Seymour, almost everything coming out of Oakland the last few years and this off season, has been pathetic. Heyward Bey, their new coach beating another coach, Thomas Kelly’s ridiculous contract, Jamarcus’ lack of development, pitching the veteran QB who could help, and on and on. There isn’t anything I’ve seen that shows me they’re heading in the right direction. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/429 "2009-09-07T14:18:16Z")
Didn’t they pull it together and look downright competent at the end of last season? Regardless, their division is so monumentally putrid that they should get a few gimme wins each year on that alone. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/430 "2009-09-07T15:20:35Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Yeah, seriously. I expect the Raiders to improve to a solid 6-10 or so team this year, then break through with an 8-8 or even 9-7 season in 2010. Not becoming a great team or anything, mind you, but a modest success story on par with the Dolphins. It’s early to say for sure, but I wouldn’t call the Dolphins a modest success story. Improving your win total by 10 in a single year - has that ever been done before? ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/431 "2009-09-07T15:34:06Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > It’s early to say for sure, but I wouldn’t call the Dolphins a modest success story. Improving your win total by 10 in a single year - has that ever been done before? The Colts went 3-13 in '98 (Manning’s rookie year), then 13-3 in '99. That’s the only other 10-win improvement (or, at least, the only one that Google seems to know about). ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/432 "2009-09-07T15:45:34Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > It’s early to say for sure, but I wouldn’t call the Dolphins a modest success story. Improving your win total by 10 in a single year - has that ever been done before? I mean that I’m expecting the Dolphins to stay around 8-8 to 9-7 for the next couple years, not make the playoffs, or if they do manage to sneak in get bounced in the first round like last year. I mean, you don’t think they’re actually good, right? It’s pretty clear to me that they overachieved last year due to QB issues in their division, giving them 2-3 free wins they shouldn’t have gotten. Put it another way: If you sat down and did a list of power rankings, where you’d put the Dolphins now is how I’m expecting to feel about the Raiders in a couple years. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/433 "2009-09-07T15:51:27Z")
Fair enough, that makes sense. I have a hard time believing the raiders will fail to suck until Davis is put out on an ice floe. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/434 "2009-09-07T16:56:54Z")
The Browns O-line this year is utterly lacking in depth. The Thomas/Steinbach/Mack combination should be the best left-to-center line in the league, but Womack and St. Clair on the right side are scary. I’m reasonably sure I’m a better pass blocker than St. Clair. And two key depth players were lost on the OL to injury - right now our backups are a frail old Hank Fraley and… uh… practice squad types. Scary. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/435 "2009-09-07T17:41:39Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I think that Bellicheat is a goddamn genius. He knows that with the awesomeness that is Heyward-Bey, the Raiders are going to win more games than expected this season, making their first rounder less valuable than it will be in 2011 due to the Raiders inevitable collapse back into the cellar of the NFL. I still fail to understand how a guy who couldn’t post more than 600 receiving yards in a season in college is supposed to post 1,000 in the NFL. Honestly, though, this is absolutely the best possible use of a pick by the Raiders. They’d only waste it on a one-legged cornerback or something if they exercised it themselves. Or a 300-pound quarterback. Or a receiver who doesn’t know how to catch. This pick will undoubtedly be in the top 10. Belichick will trade back a couple of times and probably turn it into two Pro Bowlers, one solid starter and a quality special teams guy. > [@](#): > > I have a hard time believing the raiders will fail to suck until Davis is put out on an ice floe. Nuke him from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure. > [@](#): > > In other news, WR Michael Spurlock made the team, and I’ll be thinking of Morgan Spurlock every time Michael is on the field. Micheal Spurlock is [immortal](http://www.bucem.com/2008/9/1/605627/farewell-michael-spurlock) to Buccaneers fans. We never have to hear another announcer telling us that there hasn’t been a kickoff returned for a score in franchise history. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/436 "2009-09-07T18:03:37Z")
My post about Heyward Bey and Bellicheat was mostly tounge-in-cheek. I do however think that somehow the Raiders (whom actually have a good defense) will make some small strides this year and then fall down on their faces again the following year, making the pick they gave to the Pats for Seymour more valuable (higher) than if the pick was for next year’s draft. As mentioned though, it’s largely moot because the Pats will do something creative with their pick and get better value trading it away than keeping it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/437 "2009-09-07T18:06:58Z")
If all I had to go on was the way they finished last year, I’d be looking at the Raiders as a candidate for .500 football this year. Unfortunately, I watched their preseason games… and read about their head coach breaking an assistant’s jaw… and saw them cut the only NFL-caliber quarterback on their roster, just to make sure the incumbent wouldn’t be hearing footsteps. I quite happily bet on them to lose 12 games yesterday. No passing offense + no run defense = no hope. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/438 "2009-09-07T18:28:58Z")
Remember there will be a new Labor contract for the 2011 season. The incoming rookies are guaranteed to be much cheeper. Nearly every GM hates early first round picks because of the money spent on unproven players, but in 2011 first round picks will be worth much more. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/439 "2009-09-07T19:08:43Z")
Best pundit quote ever- [Norman Chad on SI](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/norman_chad/09/06/counch.slouch/index.html) (yes, the annoying guy from World Series of Poker telecasts) talking about Matt Millen: > [@](#): > > He couldn’t find hay in a haystack. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/440 "2009-09-07T21:26:53Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Remember there will be a new Labor contract for the 2011 season. The incoming rookies are guaranteed to be much cheeper. Nearly every GM hates early first round picks because of the money spent on unproven players, but in 2011 first round picks will be worth much more. I don’t know that a new CBA will result in any such guarantees. I would hope so, but the threat of a lockout by the NFLPA is a real threat that severely affects the owner’s bottom line. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059.md?page=23)