# NFL Training camps and preseason **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 2, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059 "2009-08-02T14:55:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/61 "2009-08-04T18:18:50Z")
I thought his deal was the opposite - that he didn’t have great measurables, but he did everything well and was highly polished. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/62 "2009-08-04T18:54:16Z")
Most scouting reports do note that Crab’s route running is something he needs to work on, some note that Texas Tech didn’t use nearly as many types of routes as the pros. I’ve never heard anything negative about his work ethic, but I have heard that he’s not crazy fast, nor very tall. He just catches balls. I’m still happy with the pick, but like every other team, we have to pay him before we know if he’s worth paying. (I wish rookie contracts were for three years.) All I can do is hope Kevin Lynch, 49ers beat writer for the SF Chronicle, [is right](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/ninerinsider/detail?&entry_id=44768): “Crabtree’s belief in his own elite gifts isn’t such a bad thing. I think he’s so wedded to that notion that he’s going to work overtime to prove it.” The good news is that Gore and the O-line’s run blocking are looking really, really good. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/63 "2009-08-04T19:07:55Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I thought his deal was the opposite - that he didn’t have great measurables, but he did everything well and was highly polished. He has excellent (though not Devin Hester-type) speed, and absolutely astonishing leaping ability and body control. He’s not going to blow past NFL cornerbacks at the line of scrimmage, but he has the strength to muscle out of any jam, and once he’s up to speed he’ll blow by most. Because of the foot injury he didn’t do any of the drills at the Combine. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/64 "2009-08-05T00:00:12Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > I’ll probably regret this, but what’s your theory? You won’t regret anything. I think that many fine offensive lineman (usually the white guys) have “offensive lineman names”, usually with a lot of consonants where they almost don’t belong. Of course this isn’t always true, but I seem to notice it with olinemen. Tough guys with polish or short names. Maybe I’m stereotyping here, but my response was more about how linebackers have more generic names than olineman (Thomas, Taylor) in general. Or they have short names that are like: Goff, Grimm, Pace, etc. Or interesting names, like Dierdorf, Slater, Oher, Jacoby, Schlereth, Bostic, etc. I think I am blowing smoke up my own ass here, but I always tend to find the most interesting names are along the offensive line, and the more generic names are found mostly in other positions. Anyone want to help me out here? OK, it’s not so much a theory as a lame observation. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/65 "2009-08-05T00:02:55Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > You won’t regret anything. I think that many fine offensive lineman (usually the white guys) have “offensive lineman names”, usually with a lot of consonants where they almost don’t belong. Of course this isn’t always true, but I seem to notice it with olinemen. Tough guys with polish or short names. Maybe I’m stereotyping here, but my response was more about how linebackers have more generic names than olineman (Thomas, Taylor) in general. > > Or they have short names that are like: Goff, Grimm, Pace, etc. > > Or interesting names, like Dierdorf, Slater, Oher, Jacoby, Schlereth, Bostic, etc. > > I think I am blowing smoke up my own ass here, but I always tend to find the most interesting names are along the offensive line, and the more generic names are found mostly in other positions. > > Anyone want to help me out here? > > OK, it’s not so much a theory as a lame observation. The Panthers have Gross and Otah. Maybe you’re on to something. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/66 "2009-08-05T00:31:36Z")
I’d say the best O-line in the game has three that fit your theory (Diehl, Seubert, and Snee) and two that don’t (O’Hara and McKenzie). Now, if we change the criteria to “short, interesting or Irish-sounding”, then we’ll have them all covered. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/67 "2009-08-05T00:43:21Z")
What was the name of the particularly nasty San Fran olineman that was renowned for his ball-punching style of play? He fits into this category, blocked for Young for a long time, but I’m drawing a blank here. Known as a “dirty” player. And “Diehl, Seubert and Snee” fall right into my racist wheelhouse! ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/68 "2009-08-05T01:55:07Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > Now, if we change the criteria to “short, interesting or Irish-sounding”, then we’ll have them all covered. Doesn’t even have to be “irish sounding” just “blue-collar”. Isn’t the stereotype that burly irish guys work construction or in the mines or something? O’Hara and McKenzie totally fit with the O-Line name theory under those circumstances. Of course it completely fails for the Eagles. Jason Peters (generic), Max Jean-Gilles (interesting, but not short and too french), Jamaal Jackson (generic), Stacy Andrews (generic), Shawn Andrews (generic). Nick Cole might win the starting C job, so he would fit. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/69 "2009-08-05T02:23:39Z")
Even the Lions have a bit of a QB controversy. Daunte Culpepper dropped about 30 lbs and got in shape. He wants to make a serious effort to get back in the game. Stafford is supposed to have a huge impressive arm and some want him to step right in. Perhaps they could play them both. One of them may be able to block. No one else can. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/70 "2009-08-05T03:54:16Z")
Could someone explain to me how Devin Hester is considered by anyone to be a #1 WR in the NFL? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/71 "2009-08-05T04:24:49Z")
He… runs fast. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/72 "2009-08-05T05:45:18Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I think that many fine offensive lineman (usually the white guys) have “offensive lineman names”, usually with a lot of consonants where they almost don’t belong. I have a somewhat similar theory about Quarterbacks, except it identifies bad players instead of good ones. Basically, there are some QBs who get drafted reasonably high who have names that just \*scream \*D-1A star. Having a boyish-sounding and/or “preppy” name is a big part of it, but there are other ways to qualify. It’s mostly pretty nebulous. Anyway, these players almost invariably flop in the NFL. Some names drafted in the first three rounds since 1990 that jump out at me (plus some later round picks, included because their names are too perfect a fit for the theory to leave out): Tommy Hodson, Peter Tom Willis , Todd Marinovich, Browning Nagle, Ty Detmer (9th Round), Heath Shuler, Stoney Case, Bobby Hoying, Danny Kanell (4th), Spence Fischer (6), Danny Wuerffel (4), Charlie Batch, Cade McNown, Brock Huard, Spergon Wynn (6), Sage Rosenfels (4), Joey Harrington, Brooks Bollinger (6), Charlie Whitehurst, Brodie Croyle, Brian Brohm, John David Booty (5), and Rhett Bomar (5). Matthew Stafford is also \*\*\*really \*\*\*close to being on this list, so watch out Lions fans. The only QB drafted in the last two decades who definitely qualifies for the list but had a quality career nonetheless is \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\*. Tommy Maddox also \*probably \*belongs on the list, but whether or not his career counts as “quality” is debatable at best (he was drafted 25th overall in '92, believe it or not). Also, Carson Palmer is at least within sniffing distance of the list. Peyton Manning is an interesting case. He \*would \* absolutely qualify, but being Archie Manning’s son grants him immunity. I’m completely serious. - –\> Can anyone extrapolate from the other names who I’m referring to here? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/73 "2009-08-05T06:26:06Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > I > > - –\> Can anyone extrapolate from the other names who I’m referring to here? Troy Aikman? ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/74 "2009-08-05T10:01:15Z")
No, I meant since 1990 (he was '89), and I don’t think his name qualifies anyway (“Troy” is floptastic, but “Aikman” is a rock-solid pro Quarterback name). It feels to me like this should be such a totally easy question, though there’s a good chance that I’m the only one who’s seeing any connection between these names. [The candidates](http://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/QB-1980-now.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/75 "2009-08-05T13:03:15Z")
> [@](#): > > The only QB drafted in the last two decades who definitely qualifies for the list but had a quality career nonetheless is \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\*. Tom Brady, without question. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/76 "2009-08-05T13:27:16Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > You won’t regret anything. I think that many fine offensive lineman (usually the white guys) have “offensive lineman names”, usually with a lot of consonants where they almost don’t belong. Of course this isn’t always true, but I seem to notice it with olinemen. Tough guys with polish or short names. Maybe I’m stereotyping here, but my response was more about how linebackers have more generic names than olineman (Thomas, Taylor) in general. Darren Drozdov (the Broncos center who deliberately puked on the ball during MNF because the team had no timeouts, and later became a pro wrestler) fits in pretty well there. > [@VarlosZ](#): > > The only QB drafted in the last two decades who definitely qualifies for the list but had a quality career nonetheless is \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\*. Tommy Maddox also \*probably \*belongs on the list, but whether or not his career counts as “quality” is debatable at best (he was drafted 25th overall in '92, believe it or not). Also, Carson Palmer is at least within sniffing distance of the list. Chad Pennington? Based on your theory, I predict that Colt McCoy and Colt Brennan will be miserable flops at the pro level. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/77 "2009-08-05T13:33:33Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > What was the name of the particularly nasty San Fran olineman that was renowned for his ball-punching style of play? He fits into this category, blocked for Young for a long time, but I’m drawing a blank here. > > Known as a “dirty” player. > > And “Diehl, Seubert and Snee” fall right into my racist wheelhouse! Kevin Gogan. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/78 "2009-08-05T13:34:37Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Could someone explain to me how Devin Hester is considered by anyone to be a #1 WR in the NFL? He’s as good as anyone else the Bears have? Long way from playing nickle packages in Miami, huh? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/79 "2009-08-05T14:05:11Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > Kevin Gogan. Ah yes, thank you. Gogan. Another example of the one or two syllable names that seem to favor olinemen. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059/80 "2009-08-05T14:38:46Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > He’s as good as anyone else the Bears have? I suppose he is. Maybe I should have said: "Could someone explain to me how Devin Hester is considered by anyone to be a _ **legitimate** _#1 WR in the NFL? > [@LOUNE](#): > > Long way from playing nickle packages in Miami, huh? I remember the first time I heard about him was when he had Deion Sanders proclaiming him the greatest thing since sliced bread. Personally, I’m thrilled that the Bears pay him a big chunk of money and think he’s a #1 WR. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-training-camps-and-preseason/505059.md?page=5)