# NFL: Underinflated Balls? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 21, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515 "2015-01-21T20:17:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2015, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/281 "2015-01-27T22:47:03Z")
> [@Bootis](#): > > You claim they are one a certain few douchey teams, They’re one of three teams that I recall in the last decade that was seriously punished by the NFL for breaking rules. So that’s three out of 32 teams. That, to me, qualifies as both douchey and few. I know you really, really, really want to play the “everyone’s doing it” card and try to minimize the Patriots douchiness, but it really isn’t working. Just like when you were a Patriots apologist for spygate, where you raised the same things. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2015, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/282 "2015-01-27T22:51:19Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > They’re one of three teams that I recall in the last decade that was seriously punished by the NFL for breaking rules. So that’s three out of 32 teams. That, to me, qualifies as both douchey and few. > > I know you really, really, really want to play the “everyone’s doing it” card and try to minimize the Patriots douchiness, but it really isn’t working. Just like when you were a Patriots apologist for spygate, where you raised the same things. Wanna guess who was the most fined team in the NFL this year - the Colts. [http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/2015/01/27/colts-have-4m-in-fines-for-infractions-most-in-nfl/22401743/](http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/2015/01/27/colts-have-4m-in-fines-for-infractions-most-in-nfl/22401743/) ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/283 "2015-01-27T23:23:57Z")
> [@chizzuk](#): > > 45-7. The Patriots’ offense was on the field using their footballs a lot more than the Colts were (37:49 vs 22:11). So yes, quite possibly. > > And here’s a statistics professor’s analysis of the Patriots’ fumble data: [http://regressing.deadspin.com/why-those-statistics-about-the-patriots-fumbles-are-mos-1681805710?utm\_campaign=socialflow\_deadspin\_twitter&utm\_source=deadspin\_twitter&utm\_medium=socialflow](http://regressing.deadspin.com/why-those-statistics-about-the-patriots-fumbles-are-mos-1681805710?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow) Even though this is written as a debunking, they actually confirm that the Patriots fumble at a statistically lower rate - their z-score exceeds the critical value for p \< .01! As they themselves note, you’d expect to see the Patriots rate only 1 in 297 times. They also engage in some bamboozlery of their own trying to minimize the differences by breaking out rushing plays and pass plays separately and dropping fumbles by the quarterback from the analysis altogether. > [@](#): > > And another: [http://soshcentral.com/football-science/football-statistics/2015/01/27/fumbling-data-truth-patriots-fumble-rate/](http://soshcentral.com/football-science/football-statistics/2015/01/27/fumbling-data-truth-patriots-fumble-rate/) This one confirms that the same players do 23% better when playing for the Patriots than they do with other teams! As debunking goes, these two examples aren’t very debunky. And as a side note, it’s awesome how much Patriots fans really believe that Belicheck has some special techniques for encouraging ball security! Like he’s the only guy who ever benches someone for fumbling. That’s just crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2015, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/284 "2015-01-27T23:34:33Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > Hentor, how do you know that the Colt’s balls were legal at the beginning of the game? I don’t know that, and neither do you. They were approved by the officials, as were the Patriots balls. But the NFL has not yet released what the PSI of any ball was before the game. We still have no confirmation that the officials tested the balls before the game, only that they were inspected. Right. All I know is that they said all the balls were inspected and were legal before the game, and that their protocol is to measure each ball using a gauge. I know that Pats fans want to believe that the refs just squeeze the balls, but I’m going to assume they followed protocol until they reveal they did not. It would be crazy for the NFL to launch an investigation and to make no comment if the balls were not gauge-tested at the start of the game. If that turns out to be the case, the NFL does owe the Patriots a big apology. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/285 "2015-01-28T00:06:26Z")
Well, it’s not like the NFL has proven itself to be a beacon of integrity or particularly adept at investigation lately. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/286 "2015-01-28T01:27:44Z")
Does anyone know if game balls on the sidelines are kept in front of the heaters? Varying time spent in front of a heater in the half hour or so before being checked at halftime would seem to have a potentially significant impact on pressure. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/287 "2015-01-28T01:32:49Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Does anyone know if game balls on the sidelines are kept in front of the heaters? Varying time spent in front of a heater in the half hour or so before being checked at halftime would seem to have a potentially significant impact on pressure. Probably not, given that the Vikings and Panthers were reprimanded for heating balls on the sidelines just a few weeks ago. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/288 "2015-01-28T01:40:31Z")
Reprimanded? _Reprimanded_??? If it’s against the rules, then that’s a gross violation of the integrity of the game and they should be heavily fined and stripped of all draft picks till 2018 for being cheating cheaters! 🙂 I really had no idea. I do presume they keep them dry on the sidelines, however, so if being wet really does impact pressure significantly that could explain some of the variation. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/289 "2015-01-28T01:43:56Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Are you arguing that the Patriots balls got wet _differently_ than the Colts? 😕 A whole lot _less_, yes. Didn’t you watch the game? > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > And as a side note, it’s awesome how much Patriots fans really believe that Belicheck has some special techniques for encouraging ball security! Nobody said that, Mr. Ball Sauna. It’s entirely possible, and supported by the evidence, that his staff coaches it \*harder \*than most teams. Not “special techniques”, Mr. Ball of Hate. Just execution. > [@](#): > > Like he’s the only guy who ever benches someone for fumbling. That’s just crazy. Not as crazy as making up stuff that nobody has actually said. Like that one too. Can’t you hear the laughter yet? Now wipe off the spittle and try to enjoy watching one of the great teams of all time. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/290 "2015-01-28T01:44:40Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Reprimanded? _Reprimanded_??? If it’s against the rules, then that’s a gross violation of the integrity of the game and they should be heavily fined and stripped of all draft picks till 2018 for being cheating cheaters! > > 🙂 > > I really had no idea. I do presume they keep them dry on the sidelines, however, so if being wet really does impact pressure significantly that could explain some of the variation. Yeah, I’m not sure I buy the “being wet” angle. I’m pretty sure they’re kept in bags. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/291 "2015-01-28T01:50:39Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > Yeah, I’m not sure I buy the “being wet” angle. I’m pretty sure they’re kept in bags. Well, leather does stretch when wet, so losing pressure is plausible. And depending on how they rotated balls in and out, some seeing more game time during the peak rain periods could have some balls significantly wetter than others. I’m sure they towel them off when they get swapped back out of play, but that would only get the surface water. ---
**Author:** ![Cardboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Cardboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardboard)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/292 "2015-01-28T01:55:46Z")
I have underinflated balls. The doctor says I may never have children. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/293 "2015-01-28T02:11:57Z")
I don’t know enough about football construction to know: would expanding leather cause the bladder to stretch? Because it seems that the size of the bladder is the important factor, not the size of the encasing leather. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/294 "2015-01-28T02:21:38Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > A whole lot _less_, yes. Didn’t you watch the game? Some of it. And it’s pure insanity to suggest that somehow, the Colts balls didn’t get wet. You seem to be suggesting that since the Patriots had nearly double the time of possession of the Colts, the Patriots’ balls would be twice as wet. That’s just stupid. > [@](#): > > Nobody said that, Mr. Ball Sauna. I’ll just say that this thread is certainly giving me a better impression of who you are, **ElvisL1ves**. Quite different than I appreciated from other interactions with you, so that’s good to know. ---
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/295 "2015-01-28T02:22:26Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > Wanna guess who was the most fined team in the NFL this year - the Colts. > > [http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/2015/01/27/colts-have-4m-in-fines-for-infractions-most-in-nfl/22401743/](http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/2015/01/27/colts-have-4m-in-fines-for-infractions-most-in-nfl/22401743/) He doesn’t care about the players, or ped suspensions. A team could have a whole roster of ped offenders and he would still consider it a cleaner team than one that continued to videotape the sidelines 8 years ago after the league sent out a memo reminding teams to not do that anymore. You need to have been _caught_, doing something doing something against the rules, except not counting peds. And salary cap violations I think are ok because the illegal advantage that creates is more long term, I’m not sure exactly. and the fine needs to have been big for whatever you were caught for. that’s one set of criteria for being one of the dirty teams anyway ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/296 "2015-01-28T02:27:28Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > I don’t know enough about football construction to know: would expanding leather cause the bladder to stretch? Because it seems that the size of the bladder is the important factor, not the size of the encasing leather. Unless I’m badly mistaken, the bladder is a lot stretchier than the leather, and so its size is determined by the leather. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/297 "2015-01-28T02:31:43Z")
> [@Bootis](#): > > He doesn’t care about the players, or ped suspensions. A team could have a whole roster of ped offenders and he would still consider it a cleaner team than one that continued to videotape the sidelines 8 years ago after the league sent out a memo reminding teams to not do that anymore. This passive aggressive strawman bullshit is fucking pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/298 "2015-01-28T02:35:06Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > if you will, over and over, many times unnecessarily. You hear that about he Lions as well, in a different way with Suh and Raiola. That, to me, is what seperates them from the rest of the league. Okay so I’m a Lion’s fan …don’t laugh. I don’t like the extraneous out of play/after the whistle exceeding the rules stuff. The Suh piece doesn’t seem to be an organizational choice though. Raiola may hint at it…or he just correlates with Suh having issues. I wouldn’t say the organization doesn’t encourage trying to go above and beyond the rules to injure but if so they are doing it stupidly and too obviously. I wouldn’t say they necessarily do. I can some see thinking that the correlation means organizational causation. I don’t think Suh is good evidence of organizational douchiness though. Suh seems to have two modes. In “Hulk Mode - You wouldn’t like him when he’s angry” he can be absolutely dominant legally but he also loses control and does stupid illegal things. Frequently those violations come at times when they don’t make sense if it was just organizational douchiness. He’s just smashing what he can smash. After being punished he seems to play more in his head and is merely good. I wish we could get Hulk with a brain. ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/299 "2015-01-28T03:16:02Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > Okay so I’m a Lion’s fan …don’t laugh. No laughing, my stepson is a Lions fan, and Megatron has led my fantasy team to the finals three years in a row. > [@DinoR](#): > > I don’t like the extraneous out of play/after the whistle exceeding the rules stuff. The Suh piece doesn’t seem to be an organizational choice though. Raiola may hint at it…or he just correlates with Suh having issues. I wouldn’t say the organization doesn’t encourage trying to go above and beyond the rules to injure but if so they are doing it stupidly and too obviously. I wouldn’t say they necessarily do. I can some see thinking that the correlation means organizational causation. > > I don’t think Suh is good evidence of organizational douchiness though. Suh seems to have two modes. In “Hulk Mode - You wouldn’t like him when he’s angry” he can be absolutely dominant legally but he also loses control and does stupid illegal things. Frequently those violations come at times when they don’t make sense if it was just organizational douchiness. He’s just smashing what he can smash. After being punished he seems to play more in his head and is merely good. I wish we could get Hulk with a brain. While Suh and Raiola get most of the press, they aren’t the only ones. I have read several articles (Bears and Packers, mostly, for obvious reasons) that call out the team as a whole. Lot’s of Jim Schwartz hate from a few years ago, Jim Caldwell promising to clean it up when he got hired, etc. While it’s easy to dismiss the Bears and Packers as “divisional haters”, they see them more. They have more experience playing them and being a part of the dirty tactics. Now, maybe with Caldwell in and Schwartz long gone, things will change but Suh and Raiola aren’t helping. ---
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/300 "2015-01-28T03:27:20Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > This passive aggressive strawman bullshit is fucking pathetic. As a Patriots hater, you love mocking Patriots fans, love putting words in their mouth, but the moment anyone mocks you back you get so damn punchy [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515.md?page=16)