# NFL: Underinflated Balls? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 21, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515 "2015-01-21T20:17:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/361 "2015-01-29T16:40:24Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > What has added to the confusion is that just before the Superbowl in 2008 where the Patriots played the Giants, a story came out that they had videotaped a walk-through practice of the Rams the day before they played them in the Superbowl in 2002. The NFL investigated that specific incident, found it to be untrue, and the Boston Globe printed a retraction of their story. However, this episode often still gets cited as another example of the Patriots cheating. Nitpick: Boston Herald. And Rams fan have not gotten the memo that the allegation proved untrue. I have to explain this more or less every time the Patriots come up around here. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > :: taps mic :: > > Is this on? Sorry, dude. The joke’s been made. (I’m an opera singer with opera singer friends. “Deflator Mouse” has graced my Facebook wall for the last week and a half.) ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/362 "2015-01-29T16:40:50Z")
Can we all at least gather together and agree that the NFL’s handling of all this has been singularly strange, though? How is it that it’s almost two weeks after the event and 80 hours until the Super Bowl and we still don’t have definitive confirmation regarding whether the footballs were quantitatively tested prior to the game? It would seem that, whether it’s yes or no, the answer should be easy to provide. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/363 "2015-01-29T16:45:14Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > A team brave of heart, true of spirit, and emitting a pleasant musk with intriguing citrus overtones. There’s the rapist quarterback thing too, yeah, but there’s only one team that can’t be forgiven. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/364 "2015-01-29T16:47:12Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > Worked for me… Didn’t work for me, so I went and searched for Fleming and ESPN and Steelers… Was this the link you were looking for? > **[David Fleming: Are the Steelers the greatest franchise? - ESPN Page 2](https://www.espn.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming%2F090121)** > > As Pittsburgh makes another trip to the Super Bowl, the Flem File dares to ask: Are the Steelers the greatest franchise ever? > [@](#): > > Are the Steelers the best sports franchise ever? > > Purchased by Art Rooney Sr. in 1933, with $2,500 he supposedly won at the track (love that), the Steelers initially struggled for decades. But since the AFL-NFL merger in 1970 (something Art Sr. helped orchestrate), no one’s been better. No one. And now, after seven Super Bowls, 30 postseason wins, seven championship games in the past 14 years, 19 Hall of Famers and the dynasty of the 1970s that includes probably the greatest, baddest football team ever assembled … if you factor in the popularity of the NFL and the quaint but sturdy Midwestern soul of this franchise, it’s hard to argue against what the Steelers have built. I’m sure that was the article you were trying to link to. ---
**Author:** ![Tread](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Tread](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tread)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/365 "2015-01-29T16:49:15Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Merely amused. > > Jets fan, I take it? > [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > I thought insults weren’t allowed in this forum? It’s funny,… because it’s true ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/366 "2015-01-29T16:50:10Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > Can we all at least gather together and agree that the NFL’s handling of all this has been singularly strange, though? How is it that it’s almost two weeks after the event and 80 hours until the Super Bowl and we still don’t have definitive confirmation regarding whether the footballs were quantitatively tested prior to the game? It would seem that, whether it’s yes or no, the answer should be easy to provide. Because if the answer is no - and I believe it is - they then have to explain why the officials didn’t do their job before one of the biggest games of the year. Protect the shield and all of that. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/367 "2015-01-29T16:53:53Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Didn’t work for me, so I went and searched for Fleming and ESPN and Steelers… > > Was this the link you were looking for? > > [David Fleming: Are the Steelers the greatest franchise? - ESPN Page 2](http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090121) > > I’m sure that was the article you were trying to link to. Here, let me help you. Skeletons hiding in Steelers’ closet: Jan 27, 2011. "The Pittsburgh Steelers are the greatest franchise in sports. But you know what I’ve learned while covering this team, extensively, during the past 15 years? They also might be one of the dirtiest. . . . To be sure, this isn’t ticky-tack stuff like parking tickets and training camp curfew violations. These are reports, allegations or documented instances of shooting at cops, assaults against women, drugs, deadly high-speed car chases and suicides – as well as repeated questions about performance-enhancing drugs. . . . A 2009 investigation by ESPN into the Steelers’ history with performance-enhancing drugs found an alarming number of former players suffering from heart ailments. “Even if there is no pattern or clue linking the deaths to steroids,” wrote the article’s author, Mike Fish, “since 2000, 17 former Steelers have died before they reached the age of 59.” Seventeen men. Dead." ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/368 "2015-01-29T16:54:29Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > There’s the rapist quarterback thing too, yeah, but there’s only one team that can’t be forgiven. Hey, _accused_ rapist quarterback… ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/369 "2015-01-29T17:00:09Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > There’s the rapist quarterback thing too, yeah, but there’s only one team that can’t be forgiven. The thing is though, most quarterbacks are content to take what is given by the defense. Not Roethlisberger. he will force himself on the weaker ones to get what he wants. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/370 "2015-01-29T21:03:02Z")
A fresh bit of non-information from the NFL VP of Officiating - from twitter, link below "Blandino said the referee does not log the PSI during the pregame ball check. They’re either approved or disapproved. [https://twitter.com/jeffphowe/status/560903328268169216](https://twitter.com/jeffphowe/status/560903328268169216) So the investigation is simply taking the word of Walt Anderson that all balls were properly checked in pregame. No other way to do it." [https://twitter.com/jeffphowe/status/560903494626848771](https://twitter.com/jeffphowe/status/560903494626848771) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/371 "2015-01-29T21:15:06Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > It’s not unfunny, but it’s the third or fourth time someone has said it. Aw, crap. I thought I was the first. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/372 "2015-01-29T21:20:38Z")
That might make it politically difficult for the NFL to levy any real penalty even if they become convinced of wrongdoing, in the absence of actual forensic evidence (like a confession or video). The Patriots could pretty well argue that there is no conclusive evidence that the balls were ever at an appropriate psi, which may not convince the league but could well convince an independent arbitrator. That doesn’t necessarily _exonerate_ them; they could, for instance, knowing that the refs don’t log the initial psi, go ahead and deflate the balls in the bathroom routinely, counting on that very argument. Of course, I’m sure from now on the refs will very carefully log everything. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/373 "2015-01-29T21:26:57Z")
I still don’t think they even tested them. But, lacking any baseline my guess is now the NFL hems and haws for a few more weeks and sometime before the draft announces something like, “there is no evidence of tampering by the Patriots, however they were found to be playing with non regulation balls, therefore we will be fining them $25,000.” Of course if the NFL really cares about this, not only will the refs log the PSI, but the testing should be done on the field and not in climate controlled conditions. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/374 "2015-01-29T21:54:11Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > That might make it politically difficult for the NFL to levy any real penalty even if they become convinced of wrongdoing, in the absence of actual forensic evidence (like a confession or video). The Patriots could pretty well argue that there is no conclusive evidence that the balls were ever at an appropriate psi, which may not convince the league but could well convince an independent arbitrator. > > That doesn’t necessarily _exonerate_ them; they could, for instance, knowing that the refs don’t log the initial psi, go ahead and deflate the balls in the bathroom routinely, counting on that very argument. > > Of course, I’m sure from now on the refs will very carefully log everything. My guess is that we’ll see some off-season rule change on how the balls are handled pre-game. Probably make them similar to how the K-balls are handled. ---
**Author:** ![BigDadWolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@BigDadWolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigDadWolf)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/375 "2015-01-29T22:05:36Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > Can we all at least gather together and agree that the NFL’s handling of all this has been singularly strange, though? How is it that it’s almost two weeks after the event and 80 hours until the Super Bowl and we still don’t have definitive confirmation regarding whether the footballs were quantitatively tested prior to the game? It would seem that, whether it’s yes or no, the answer should be easy to provide. I can certainly agree to that and its been a huge distraction which may end up giving the Patriots a motivational edge. Of course, it could turn out that Brady’s passes flutter and the Patriots RBs fumble four times which would be awkward for us Patriot fans. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/376 "2015-01-29T22:46:24Z")
“Logged” and “tested” are different things. If Anderson asserts that he gauge tested, that will be a sufficient baseline for the league. If he didn’t gauge test, that should have been the end of any investigation. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/377 "2015-01-29T23:32:33Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > “Logged” and “tested” are different things. If Anderson asserts that he gauge tested, that will be a sufficient baseline for the league. I’m sure it will for the _league_, but it might not for an independent arbitrator. I doubt the league wants to find themselves in a situation where they hand down discipline, which is overturned on appeal because the evidence is just not strong enough. I just think that they would want to avoid any more embarrassment over discipline. Of course, I could be completely wrong about that. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/378 "2015-01-29T23:48:13Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > I’m sure it will for the _league_, but it might not for an independent arbitrator. I doubt the league wants to find themselves in a situation where they hand down discipline, which is overturned on appeal because the evidence is just not strong enough. I don’t think the coaches and teams get to appeal to an independent arbiter the way the players do, though. The appeals process for players is spelled out in the collective bargaining agreement, but coaches are considered management, and they’re stuck with whatever Goodell decides to do. Look at the punishments for bountygate - Saints players had their suspensions reduced, but Payton and Williams sat out the full year without recourse. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/379 "2015-01-29T23:57:58Z")
The league’s announcement that the investigation will take several more weeks is obviously so the whole foolish mess will be forgotten in the wake of the crowning of the new champion. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/380 "2015-01-30T00:22:42Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > I don’t think the coaches and teams get to appeal to an independent arbiter the way the players do, though. The appeals process for players is spelled out in the collective bargaining agreement, but coaches are considered management, and they’re stuck with whatever Goodell decides to do. > > Look at the punishments for bountygate - Saints players had their suspensions reduced, but Payton and Williams sat out the full year without recourse. That may very well be (I’m certainly not an expert on the ins and outs of league discipline), but I still think the league has a PR problem if there is no conclusive evidence that the balls were ever fully inflated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515.md?page=20)