# NFL: Underinflated Balls? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 21, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515 "2015-01-21T20:17:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/481 "2015-05-11T15:20:56Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No, duckie, that is like not being against the rules. In fact, that’s exactly what it is. As in, the NFL has no rule prohibiting it. Good. Now extend the concept and see what else you can conclude. > [@](#): > > I already conceded that Belichick would probably not be suspended Your claim was not “would” but “should”. Now try again. :dubious: > [@](#): > > You could learn a thing or two from me, given how utterly wrong you’ve been about everything in this thread. Says the guy who wants Belichick suspended. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/482 "2015-05-11T16:54:40Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > When you are able to explain why Belichick should be suspended, please do so, btw. Wasn’t Sean Payton suspended a full season for basically not putting a stop to the Saints bounty program when it was brought to light? The NFL acknowledged that he didn’t participate at all, but he was responsible for the actions of those under him in the organization. Even if you can’t prove Belichick knew anything at all about the deflated balls, I wouldn’t be surprised if gets a game suspension just to reinforce the message that head coaches are responsible for pretty much everyone in the organization. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/483 "2015-05-11T17:22:56Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > . . . > > Even if you can’t prove Belichick knew anything at all about the deflated balls, I wouldn’t be surprised if gets a game suspension just to reinforce the message that head coaches are responsible for pretty much everyone in the organization. I agree that if there is definite wrongdoing there should be some punishment for him -not- knowing. Otherwise, there is incentive for underlings to skirt the rules while leaving a “plausible deniability” cloud around their actions. It also leaves the door open for underlings to be thrown under the bus with the more powerful getting off free. Coaches and other managers need to be incentivized to make sure everyone is informing them and walking the straight and narrow. It’s like Sarbanes/Oxley. Is a CEO a CFO? No! But s/he is required to make sure that job is being done honestly and accurately, and share the pain if there is any malfeasance. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/484 "2015-05-11T18:08:20Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Wasn’t Sean Payton suspended a full season for basically not putting a stop to the Saints bounty program when it was brought to light? Mainly for knowing about it and approving of it and hiring the kind of coaches who did it. He was no innocent. > [@](#): > > Even if you can’t prove Belichick knew anything at all about the deflated balls, I wouldn’t be surprised if gets a game suspension just to reinforce the message that head coaches are responsible for pretty much everyone in the organization. Coaches rarely get even a game misconduct even for significant issues with actual evidence behind them and actual effects, even ones that originate in the team, not the officials and rumors created by opponents. You can’t consider this case in isolation, even though doing so is necessary to maintain a proper recreational outrage. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/485 "2015-05-11T18:13:39Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Wasn’t Sean Payton suspended a full season for basically not putting a stop to the Saints bounty program when it was brought to light? The NFL acknowledged that he didn’t participate at all, but he was responsible for the actions of those under him in the organization. > > Even if you can’t prove Belichick knew anything at all about the deflated balls, I wouldn’t be surprised if gets a game suspension just to reinforce the message that head coaches are responsible for pretty much everyone in the organization. As noted (like, a page ago) Payton not only knew about the program, but actively tried to cover it up. The bounty program was also massively larger than this apparently was. I continue to maintain that it is unreasonable to expect a head coach to be aware of every single thing that goes on in the organization. I’m not going to get all up in arms if Belichick gets a one-game suspension, but I think that any discipline should really be focused on the people who, you know, actually did stuff. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/486 "2015-05-11T18:15:47Z")
Not to mention that the bounty program was about trying to seriously injure opposing players. That’s automatically a much more serious matter, both intrinsically and in terms of the league’s image. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/487 "2015-05-11T18:57:59Z")
Yes the bounty program was much more severe than deflating balls, and that’s why Payton got a full season suspension. I think it’s debatable what Payton knew and when he knew it. The general message behind Payton’s suspension, though, was that he was responsible whether he was involved or not. So, right or wrong, I wouldn’t be surprised if Bill gets one game. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/488 "2015-05-11T20:08:46Z")
I don’t know how debatable Payton’s knowledge was, and it’s irrelevant anyway since the league believed he knew. It is worth pointing out that, according to Wikipedia at least: > [@Wikipedia](#): > > Goodell also implied that Payton would have faced significant punishment in any event, since his contractual obligation to supervise his assistants meant that he at least should have known about the scheme. But in this case, no assistants were involved. The implication there seems to be that the coach is responsible for his staff, not every member of the organization. Thing is, as far as I can tell, suspending a coach for actions that he was neither involved in or aware of, would be completely unprecendented. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/489 "2015-05-11T20:18:56Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Good. Now extend the concept and see what else you can conclude. I have no idea where you’re going with this, unless you are contending that there isn’t a rule against tampering with game balls. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/490 "2015-05-11T20:20:38Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > I don’t know how debatable Payton’s knowledge was, and it’s irrelevant anyway since the league believed he knew. It is worth pointing out that, according to Wikipedia at least: > > But in this case, no assistants were involved. The implication there seems to be that the coach is responsible for his staff, not every member of the organization. > > Thing is, as far as I can tell, suspending a coach for actions that he was neither involved in or aware of, would be completely unprecendented. Isn’t Bellichick the head coach/general manager? If they were separate positions, I could see a rationale for the NFL to go after the GM instead of the coach. But if Bellichick has both titles, then he’s responsible for both the coaching staff as HC and the rest of the organization as GM. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/491 "2015-05-11T20:26:04Z")
That would be even more unprecedented. Mickey Loomis was also suspended for the bounty program, but again, he was aware of it, and had specifically defied the owner’s orders to shut it down. The only other general manager ever suspended is Ricky Farmer, recently suspended for texting. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/492 "2015-05-11T20:27:54Z")
Not officially. His only title is HC. In practice, he has final authority over all football operations. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/493 "2015-05-11T20:29:34Z")
Saints GM Mickey Loomis was suspended for the bounty issue. Even owners can be suspended - see Irsay’s shenanigans last season. The more frequent organizational punishment is for a team to lose draft picks, though. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/494 "2015-05-11T20:35:05Z")
But again, Loomis, Irsay, and Farmer were suspended for things they either did or had knowledge of and failed to stop. No one has ever been suspended for something that someone else did that they didn’t know about. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/495 "2015-05-11T21:41:34Z")
And now NFL has announced it. Tom Brady suspended four games, Patriots fined $1 million, lose two picks. NE plays INd week 5. Brady will be coming off the bench pissed and looking for blood. Prediction: 52-7 NE. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/496 "2015-05-11T21:49:14Z")
The fine seems excessive. I assume that the maximum fine has been bumped up (it was 500K for a while), but fining them twice what the Saints were fined for the bounty program is a little out-of whack. Not that they can’t afford it, of course. Oh well. Here’s to Jimmy Garoppolo! ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/497 "2015-05-11T21:52:22Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > The fine seems excessive. I assume that the maximum fine has been bumped up (it was 500K for a while), but fining them twice what the Saints were fined for the bounty program is a little out-of whack. > > Not that they can’t afford it, of course. > > Oh well. Here’s to Jimmy Garoppolo! Well the NFL mentioned that it was for the violation itself and also “for failure to cooperate in the subsequent investigation”, so I can see the fine being proper for especially the later charge. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/498 "2015-05-11T22:10:52Z")
The Saints didn’t particularly cooperate in their investigation either. Whatever. I don’t have to pay it… ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/499 "2015-05-11T22:13:36Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > And now NFL has announced it. Tom Brady suspended four games, Patriots fined $1 million, lose two picks. NE plays INd week 5. Brady will be coming off the bench pissed and looking for blood. Prediction: 52-7 NE. Ha! I would have preferred more games, but I’m pleasantly surprised about the two picks. ---
**Author:** ![BlueOhio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/439d5e/32.png) [@BlueOhio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlueOhio)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/500 "2015-05-11T22:44:49Z")
Suspending one of the best QB’s in football unfortunately hands a few wins to some teams. I don’t like that. I’d rather they fined him and the Pats instead of giving the Steelers a win in week 1. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515.md?page=26)