# NFL: Underinflated Balls? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 21, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515 "2015-01-21T20:17:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/81 "2015-01-22T21:31:45Z")
> [@bizerta](#): > > On a related note: If one inflates a ball to 12PSI with hot air (say, 50C/122F), how much does the pressure drop as the ball cools to 5C/41F? Could this be the “cause” of deflategate? 12.5 PSI (above atmosphere) at room temperature 70F, chilled to 20F (field temp) would create just about a 2PSI drop. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/82 "2015-01-22T21:44:27Z")
I should have known I’d screw that up. I retract my point and now claim the opposite! ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/83 "2015-01-22T21:53:16Z")
Plus, there is a control group. The reports seem to indicate that Indy’s balls were just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/84 "2015-01-22T21:58:57Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > So the way this probably went down was: Brady (or someone) has the equipment people underinflate the balls by 1-1.5 psi, hoping the refs won’t notice. The refs don’t notice. The balls go into play. During the game, the dropping temperatures cause the already underinflated balls to deflate even further, making it more noticeable to the Colts’ players. > > I realize it’s much more dramatic to imagine Bill Belichick sending his ninja squad out there to deflate the balls after they’ve already been turned over to the officiating crew, under the lights in a crowded stadium just before a nationally televised football game… but I think my scenario sounds more realistic. I agree. I assume the Ref’s dropped the ball here, and no one tampered after the officials checked. I assume there is no penalty for underinflated balls at the pre-game check. The officials would just say, “put some more air in these.” If they don’ notice, it’s not really cheating. And I say this as a huge Seahawk fan who has no love for the Pats. ---
**Author:** ![chizzuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chizzuk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chizzuk)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/85 "2015-01-22T22:11:50Z")
Well, Belichick and now Brady have categorically denied that they deliberately tampered with the balls in any way and stated that they have no idea what happened. So the lines in the sand have been pretty clearly drawn. I cannot believe this has exploded the way it has. It seems like it’s getting as much domestic coverage as Charlie Hebdo, and that is pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/86 "2015-01-22T22:23:07Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > I did the same calculation in another thread, and **Maserschmit** pointed out where we both went wrong: we’re working in gage pressure instead of absolute pressure. When we say that the footballs are inflated to 12.5 psi, that’s not entirely accurate - they’re inflated to 12.5 psi above atmospheric pressure. The absolute pressure in a ball that checks out at 12.5 psi is actually 27.2 psi (assuming atmospheric pressure of 14.7). Instead of a 16% drop from 12.5 to 10.5, we’re looking for a 7.4% drop from 27.2 to 25.2. > > That drop is easily explained going from the 300 K locker room to a 278 K (41 °F) field. No tampering required. OK, this makes sense to me. So why isn’t ESPN…or anyone else in the media…getting Sheldon Cooper, or someone more media friendly :D, to give a crash course in Boyle’s Law, Charles’ Law, Gay-Lussac Law? /(mostly) rhetorical ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/87 "2015-01-22T23:47:33Z")
To pump up the super bowl buzz & viewership? To move a step closer to WWF? ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/88 "2015-01-23T00:10:33Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > To pump up the super bowl buzz & viewership? To move a step closer to WWF? It would have been funny if Tom Brady had shown up with a MIT physics professor and the Professor gave a lecture on Charles’ Law ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/89 "2015-01-23T00:18:21Z")
[Former NFL kicker Chris Kluwe weighs in](http://time.com/3679079/patriots-under-inflated-balls-deflategate-nfl-scandal/) (no pun intended) ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/90 "2015-01-23T00:29:48Z")
In the Patriots’ favor, at least the murderer on their team actually got kicked out and went to jail. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/91 "2015-01-23T00:34:46Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > They generally do about 2 hours before the game. Each ball gets inspected, marked as certified, and placed in a bag in each team’s locker room. > > In this particular case, the crew [reportedly did check](http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/21/report-afc-championship-footballs-inspected-referee-2-hours-kickoff) the balls. > > But 2 hours is a lot of time. It’s not like the officials stand guard or anything. Each team gets their balls a couple hours before the game. Certainly enough time to inflate or deflate balls before the game really got going. Where are you getting this? The rules say… > [@](#): > > The referee “shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications” and the balls “remain under the supervision of the Referee until they are delivered to the ball attendant just prior to the start of the game,” according to Rule 2, Section 1. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/92 "2015-01-23T01:00:11Z")
The Colts player who identified the underinflated ball says no he didn’t. > **[Colts LB Jackson: I didn't flag Brady football](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/12213533/dqwell-jackson-indianapolis-colts-says-one-noticed-ball-was-inflated)** > > Indianapolis Colts linebacker D'Qwell Jackson said it wasn't him who raised the concerns about New England's footballs being under-inflated during Sunday's AFC Championship Game. ---
**Author:** ![stillownedbysetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@stillownedbysetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stillownedbysetters)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/93 "2015-01-23T04:02:45Z")
> [@zoog](#): > > I’m mostly following this story for the humor and entertainment value - somehow I really have a hard time believing that there’s a big advantage to be gained by a little doctoring of footballs. I really don’t think that deflated balls had much to do with Blount running over the Colts like they were a frickin’ Pop Warner team. > > That said, I don’t know if the humor was intentional or not, but check out the backdrop behind Belichick in the video of his press conference: > > [http://sports.yahoo.com/news/patriots-coach-says-doesnt-know-balls-were-deflated-154513510--nfl.html](http://sports.yahoo.com/news/patriots-coach-says-doesnt-know-balls-were-deflated-154513510--nfl.html) > > Seriously. Gillette #flexball? Now that’s funny. I was coming here to post that very same thing. Didn’t even one of their PR people think it might bd a good idea not to have a big red FLEXBALL on each side of Billy B’s head? Oh the sweet irony. ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/94 "2015-01-23T05:25:15Z")
Huh… Okay, blast me, ignore me, get concerned over me, whichever, there have been some great discussions in The Game Room (and occasionally there still are), and I’m not going to stop coming here, and I haven’t been a football fan in ages but I guess there’s no avoiding this particular froofraw, so what the hell…I’m saying my piece. The one thing that I find so damn _irritating_ about all this, other than that it’s just going on and on and on…well, okay, that’s actually a valid point, let’s get to that. Okay, sports is hype-driven. I know that. I’ve made peace with that fact long ago. The draft is overhyped, the Boston Red Sox are overhyped, Peyton Manning is overhyped, the “Sweet Sixteen” (for the life of me I _still_ cannot think of a more inappropriate name for “freaking four wins from what you came here for”) is overhyped…okay. The thing is, generally the hype is deserved. Maybe not that much, maybe not that fervent, but for the most part these are legitimately big things. Love him or hate him (although I suspect the vast majority of the country was in “just plain done with him” territory by the end), Tim Tebow completely winning the hearts of a demographic not normally associated with football was a pretty big deal. And when the media does raise a firestorm over nothing for whatever reason, it invariably flames out as quickly as it arrived and is never mentioned again. Remember Maniti Teo? But when something drags on, endlessly, and there is **so** much drama, and **so** much grandstanding, and **so** much wailing and moaning, and it goes on for weeks or months with no end in sight, and there is _absolutely nothing new_ for the entire duration, and _every_ damn sports outlet obligingly follows on, week after week, month after month, in the futile hope that _something_ will happen and justify all the time and money and energy the poured into the story…well, the word “Sisyphean” comes to mind, and “soul-crushing” fits as well. I remember the slog that was the Lance Armstrong investigation, and as YEARS went by with more and more allegations, more and more suspicions, more and more rumors, more and more Stuff That Didn’t Look Right, or Didn’t Sound Right, more and more testimonies, more and more fingers pointed, more and more 100% ironclad assurances that He Was Dirty I Just Know It, more and more and more and more _goddam meaningless crap_ that didn’t move the needle one angstrom towards “clean” or “dirty”, I eventually started saying, “Please, just one smoking gun! Anything! I don’t care how this ends, just so long as it _ends!_” And that’s where I dread “Inflategate\*” is going. Heck, the fact that ESPN’s still taking about it is a red flag. The narrative seems to be: “Okay, the Colts would’ve been demolished anyway, but _that’s not important!_ And we’re not sure if the Patriots actually tampered with the balls or if it was just the weather, but _that’s not important!_ And it would’ve given them at best a tiny advantage, but _that’s not important!_ There’s a long, long pattern of behavior, and even though most of it is at best chickenscratch or stuff the whole league did, like “Spygate\*”, that’s not important either! You must get _extremely outraged_ over this and demand that the NFL come down on the Patriots organization like 50 tons of bricks!” Look, I’ll make this as simple as possible… **I can’t do it.** Not after a college team won after being given a second fourth down (pretty much as ironclad a case for a team that shouldn’t have won as it’s flippin’ possible to get) and the pollsters voting that team #1 anyway. Not after Futahaguro got the most undeserved Yokozuna promotion ever and proceeded to become 500 times as embarrassing as Konishiki at his absolute worst. Not after the Seattle Seahawks get flat-out robbed in the Super Bowl (you know it and I know it, dammit) because Jerome Bettis Deserved A Ring. Not after a pitcher gets robbed of a perfect game because of a horrible call that Lt. Frank Drebin wouldn’t have blown, and there being _absolutely no possible corrective action whatsoever BECAUSE BASEBALL_. Not after that worthless ignorant bloviating hack John McCain tried to kill MMA by comparing it to animals forced to fight to the death, and no one on Capitol Hill making the slightest effort to determine if there was any credence to his drunken ravings. Hell, don’t even get me started on the disgraceful farce that the Olympics used to be; until around 1996, it was crammed with enough shenanigans, corruption, and massive bungles to put WCW to shame. I’ve seen brazen cheating, I’ve seen horrific injustice, I’ve seen gross favoritism, and **this isn’t it.** And I am all, utterly, completely out of craps to give. Bah. Feh. When does Tiger Woods play again? - Could we _please_ stop using “-gate” to name every single damn bit of suspected wrongdoing on the planet? The Watergate was the name a hotel! It was not a scandal involving water! _I’m not even the first person to bring that up on SDMB!_ ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/95 "2015-01-23T14:12:57Z")
Ohio State physics prof Dr. Michael Lisa says: > [@](#): > > “There were apparently balls found at 10.5 PSI gauge pressure rather than the regulation 13 PSI gauge pressure. This corresponds to an 11 percent difference in the absolute pressure in the ball. (Absolute pressure includes both the gauge pressure and atmospheric pressure.) That 11 percent change in pressure is what you’d get with a 11 percent reduction in temperature. Taking care of all the conversions to Kelvin, etc, that would be going from 70 F to 12 F. So, that could happen on a real cold day.” Hard to believe the weather effected 11 of 12 Patriot balls but none from the Colts. Whatever, I agree that this football deflation issue has gone on long enough. Someone in the Patriots organization - whether it was the coach, the QB, or a rogue ball boy - tried to get away with something. They got caught. Fine the team and let’s move on. Even if Tom Brady came out in the first place with, “I didn’t like the grip of the ball before the game and I requested the ball boy let some air out,” I bet there would be no more punishment than a fine. No suspensions or loss of draft picks or game forfeitures. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/96 "2015-01-23T14:27:38Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Hard to believe the weather effected 11 of 12 Patriot balls but none from the Colts. Has anybody reported on what pressure the Colts usually use for their balls? If the Pats are usually at the low end of the range and the Colts are usually at the high end, that could potentially explain the discrepancy. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/97 "2015-01-23T15:02:24Z")
Temperature really can’t explain the thing, unless the official’s locker room was really hot and the Colts overinflate their ball. Every time I do the math, I get a one pound reduction assuming 70F for the locker room and a field temperature of about 50 (official gametime temperature was 51). What it can do is let us hypothesize that the Patriots inflated to 11.5 psi and the Colts to 13.5. The refs check was not that rigorous, and the Patriots balls felt “close enough”. Then the temperature change causes the Pats balls to fall to 10.5, and the Colts to 12.5. Just one possibility of many. I wonder, really, if there is any way to determine what happened unless somebody actually comes out and says “I did it!”, which seems unlikely. This may be one of those things where the final determination is “the footballs were underinflated; we don’t know why; we can’t really do anything about it”. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/98 "2015-01-23T16:03:19Z")
That seems most likely to me, especially with what Rodgers said about them overinflating the balls. I can’t believe some of the reporting on this, although maybe I shouldn’t be surprised. There was the Rosenberg article mentioned earlier, and then this Ian O’Connor article expressing amazement that Brady wouldn’t notice that the ball _weighed two pounds less_. They’ve changed that part on ESPN now, it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/99 "2015-01-23T16:17:22Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > The Colts player who identified the underinflated ball says no he didn’t. > > [D'Qwell Jackson of Indianapolis Colts says he wasn't the one that noticed ball was under-inflated - ESPN](http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12213533/dqwell-jackson-indianapolis-colts-says-one-noticed-ball-was-inflated) Interesting. I knew that both offensive and defensive players kept balls as keepsakes following touchdowns or interceptions. But now that I know that each team brings 12 of their own balls, I’m surprised that they let opposing defenses keep the other team’s balls. And the mismanagement at the NFL’s C-suite continues. They’ve provided absolutely nothing worthwhile to the fans and media yet besides claiming that they’ve launched an investigation. But no one had even spoken to Brady yet? He’s the one person that would have directly benefited from the under-inflated balls. Goodell continues to prefer burying his head in the sand while hoping that the problem goes away. Without a strong and definitive statement from the NFL stating that the Patriots had nothing to do with it, this Patriots dynasty will be permanently discounted by everyone outside of the New England fan base. They will never be regarded amongst the 60’s Packers, 70’s Steelers, 80’s Niners or 90’s Cowboys. ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515/100 "2015-01-23T18:28:06Z")
Belichick is the Richard Nixon of football. No one’s going to believe he isn’t up to something sneaky. If the balls were under inflated I doubt it made much difference. But I guess it’s a rule and it is worth a fine. Especially when you consider all the other rules in the NFL that are much more stupid. Like Marshawn Lynch being warned that he would be ejected from the game if his shoes were gold colored. Or all the stupid taunting penalties or celebrating penalties. Compared to that I think not maintaining the equipment to specs is a bigger deal. But who even made this rule? For all I know they could have just pulled some numbers out of a hat and as long as the balls were inflated no one cared. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-underinflated-balls/710515.md?page=6)