# NFL Week 1 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 3, 2014, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-1/697352 "2014-09-03T12:25:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-1/697352/21 "2014-09-05T03:19:46Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > 2 plays a half. Other times he gets pushed around, or run past, or is just a guy. I’m not writing him off totally, but hes not all that impressive. I wrote him off 2 years ago. I’m going to enjoy this narrative this season. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-1/697352/22 "2014-09-05T03:28:36Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I think my new pet peeve that I’m going to rail about every week this NFL season is offensive holding. DEs always get a gimme call just about any time they fall down. Their technique is to get into the OTs body, turn the corner and get a good lean. If the OL gets his hands up and creates some space the DE tends to fall down because they have nothing to lean on any more. This draws a flag way too often. > > A related BS call that short guys like James Harrison used to be famous for, was performing that move, getting low and into the OLs body and when the OL swallows them up by mashing them into the ground they get a flag. Bogus, if you get shoved to the ground that’s a block, not a hold. > > In other news, that blown tackle from Ha-Ha on the trick TD pass was exactly why I was not a fan when he was being mocked to the Bears back in April. Clay Matthews has taken this to a whole new level in this game. ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-1/697352/23 "2014-09-05T03:51:40Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Safety!! > > ETA: He kicked it from the 10? Isn’t the restraining line of a safety kick the 20? there was a penalty after the safety and they applied it to the kickoff. iirc unsportsmanlike conduct after the play ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-1/697352/24 "2014-09-05T03:53:55Z")
I believe Eddie Lacy is now officially concussion-prone. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-1/697352/25 "2014-09-05T17:00:59Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > \I’m still not convinced that Chip Kelly’s system isn’t a bit of a gimmick and I think teams may adapt this year in round 2, but I love the Sproles addition for them. Please tell me, as precisely as you can, what aspects of his “system” you think might be a gimmick. I’m not a coach, but I study the X and Os, and the idea that Kelly is some wildly innovative play designer is baloney; and Kelly himself would be the first to agree. The core play of his offense is the zone run from a shotgun formation; half or more of the teams in the league use zone-based running games, and every team runs it from the gun. I’ll grant you, he was among the first half-dozen coaches to bring zone-option plays to the NFL, but with Foles as his QB that wasn’t a major part of the offense last year and won’t be now. He does use run/pass option plays, but in 2014, so does half the NFL. Wilson’s TD pass to Lockett last night came on a triple-option. I saw the Packers run a handoff/pass option play; the backer dropped in coverage, so unless you were watching away from the ball it just looked like a straight handoff to Lacy. Certainly none of the college coaches that have been seeing them over the last 10 years have come up with an obvious solution to that, so it hardly seems gimmicky. I can see people thinking tempo is a “gimmick,” but that’s not an essential part of the scheme; they can and do dial it back sometimes. (And again, it certainly isn’t an innovation.) The areas where he really is innovative are the way he structures and organizes his practices and the stuff about nutrition and sleep and all that; and while I suspect the league may catch up on those things, it’ll be more of a ten-year deal than overnight. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-1/697352/26 "2014-09-05T17:03:29Z")
> [@furt](#): > > The areas where he really is innovative are the way he structures and organizes his practices and the stuff about nutrition and sleep and all that; and while I suspect the league may catch up on those things, it’ll be more of a ten-year deal than overnight. If that’s true, then it should carry over to the defense. But the Iggles’ defense was awful last year while its offense was excellent. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-1/697352/27 "2014-09-05T17:27:21Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If that’s true, then it should carry over to the defense. But the Iggles’ defense was awful last year while its offense was excellent. What makes you think it didn’t? They were one of the worst defenses in the league in 2012, too. They then lost several starters, added some mediocre players, and made a switch from a 4-3 to a 3-4, which was not a natural fit for the best returning players. Expecting custom smoothies to overcome all that is asking a bit much. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-1/697352/28 "2014-09-05T17:52:10Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Will I wear my jersey proudly in Week 3 around Denver while chanting “Omaha! Omaha! Hurry hurry!” > Of course. I heard the fashion for Seahawks fans is blue hats with big orange letters that say “Broncos” – printed from right to left. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-1/697352/29 "2014-09-05T18:06:39Z")
> [@furt](#): > > They were one of the worst defenses in the league in 2012, too. No they weren’t. They ranked 15th in yards allowed and 13th in yards per play. They did give up a lot of points but that included 8 fumble/kick/interception returns, most in the league. The offense had by far the most fumbles and fumbles lost. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-1/697352/30 "2014-09-05T19:41:55Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No they weren’t. They ranked 15th in yards allowed and 13th in yards per play. They did give up a lot of points but that included 8 fumble/kick/interception returns, most in the league. The offense had by far the most fumbles and fumbles lost. What, exactly is your point? I said Kelly’s ideas about practice structure and exercise science were innovative. That means “introducing new ideas; original and creative in thinking.” The 2012 team gave up 5491 at 5.5 YPP and caused 13 turnovers. The 2013 team gave up 6304 at 5.5 YPP and caused 31 turnovers. Please, spell out for me the syllogism drawing from this data that logically concludes with “therefore, Kelly’s ideas about practice structure and exercise science are not new, original or creative” Hell, spell out the one that logically concludes \*anything \*about his ideas about practice structure and exercise science. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-1/697352/31 "2014-09-06T01:29:20Z")
[Things are rough in Buffalo](http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24695455/buffalo-tension-boils-over-in-shouting-match-for-marrone-bills-officials), lots of tensions between the coaching staff and the rest of their team. I kinda feel bad for Buffalo and generally wish them success, but the Browns own their first round pick this year. I need to root for total implosion. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-1/697352/32 "2014-09-06T01:53:55Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Please tell me, as precisely as you can, what aspects of his “system” you think might be a gimmick. > > \ > > I can see people thinking tempo is a “gimmick,” but that’s not an essential part of the scheme; they can and do dial it back sometimes. (And again, it certainly isn’t an innovation.) I wasn’t really arguing that it’s a gimmick. It’s been accused and I’m not sure where I sit on the issue. I lean towards the tempo thing being a gimmick that will quickly be adjusted to, but I haven’t looked at it closely enough to dig my heels in on it. The point I was making is that it’s fair to wonder if the Eagles will regress on offense as people adjust. The Eagles, aside from McCoy, don’t have anything even approaching elite, difference making talent on offense which makes them susceptible to big dip if the hard-to-define special sauce gets solved. Some new ideas in the NFL evolve and become part of its fabric, like the West Coast, and some of it gets relegated to the trash heap of gimmicks, like the Wildcat. After one season, I’d say the jury is still out. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-1/697352/33 "2014-09-06T17:33:31Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I wasn’t really arguing that it’s a gimmick. It’s been accused and I’m not sure where I sit on the issue. I lean towards the tempo thing being a gimmick that will quickly be adjusted to, but I haven’t looked at it closely enough to dig my heels in on it. > > The point I was making is that it’s fair to wonder if the Eagles will regress on offense as people adjust. The Eagles, aside from McCoy, don’t have anything even approaching elite, difference making talent on offense which makes them susceptible to big dip if the hard-to-define special sauce gets solved. > > Some new ideas in the NFL evolve and become part of its fabric, like the West Coast, and some of it gets relegated to the trash heap of gimmicks, like the Wildcat. After one season, I’d say the jury is still out. Thaks for the response. I would say though, that the people who call new things “gimmicks” are the kind of people you should ignore. And yes, this includes the ex-jocks on ESPN, many of which know better but are being paid not to be intelligent but to act visceral. I don’t like calling anything that fits within the rules and sportsmanship “a gimmick” … to me it sounds a lot like the whining of someone who’s been outhought instead of being beaten physically. But you are correct in making the differentiation between things that can integrate/be integrated with other concepts. And that’s why anyone who thought about it for five minutes could see that the wildcat was inherently self-limiting; you snap the ball to a non-passer, and you open up a couple possibilities while eliminating a hundred others. You put a back in jet motion at the snap, and again, you open up a few possibilities while closing off a bunch more. Like a halfback option pass, it’s only going to work while there’s a bit of surprise to it. Walsh’s ideas, in contrast, didn’t take anything away from what came before: he operated from the same formations as everyone else, and he could and did run the same base plays as everyone else; he added and didn’t take away. To pick another innovation that was called a “gimmick” – the Run and Shoot had some elements that were self-limiting – e.g. the insistence on being in the shotgun 24/7 and not wanting to carry FB/TEs on the roster – and those were short-lived. But the core concepts – spread formations and option routes – were integrated and added. If there’s any justice in the world, Wes Welker will thank Mouse Davis in his induction speech. There’s very little that Kelly, or any of the other spread coaches, do that close off any possibilities. The formations look a little different, but the underlying plays are the same, and they draw on things that have been done for decades ([Here’s one run concept](http://smartfootball.com/run-game/does-anyone-still-use-vince-lombardis-packers-sweep#sthash.oET6CYhR.dpbs), traced from the Wing-T through Gus Malzahn). The whole “genius coach so-and-so has a new and wildly different ‘system.’” meme is almost always bullshit, and one of the things I love most about Kelly is that he refuses to indulge it. [ > [@](#): > > “Everybody’s got a bunch of plays they run,” Kelly said. "Everybody’s got screens, everybody’s got drop-back, everybody’s got out-of-pocket, power, to say counter, inside zone.” ]([http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20140905\_Kelly\_s\_offense\_combines\_versatility\_\_adaptability.html#i8jwPgCQco86PPBH.99](http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20140905_Kelly_s_offense_combines_versatility__adaptability.html#i8jwPgCQco86PPBH.99)) That isn’t to say that Xs and Os don’t matter, but that the differences between teams, especially at the NFL level, is very exaggerated. Most NFL teams have 90% of the same play concepts as everyone else. Kelly is wacky and crazy in that he runs 85% of the same. His base formations are all in the shotgun, but it’s not like he’s dogmatic about it; he used I-formations several times last year, seemingly just to make the point. People could “catch up” up to the wildcat, because it really only presented about three or four possibilities, eventually defenses figure out to cover them. The Walsh offense isn’t so easy because while it adds new concepts, it also keeps as many of the old ones as it wants to. Once the defense starts focusing on the slot/flat route combination that was one of the core “innovations” of that scheme, you’re now more vulnerable to all the other plays that were already in the playbook. (The best responses to the slant/flat are the zone blitz … which then opens up the draw play and/or the TE running a straight seam). 10-20 years ago, it was plausible to think that running plays from a spread shotgun formation took too much away from the run game, but we know now that the increased passing threat (especially with modern rules) easily makes up for it, and that you can effectively run all the traditional run plays from it (Kelly’s core play is the inside zone, which is the same core play Mike Shanahan has had for 20 years). They may well regress this year; Foles is not going to post a 27-2 ratio, and you’re absolutely right about the personnel. But there isn’t really any “special sauce” for people to catch up to; the good/bad news is that in the X’s and O’s he’s just a good coach who adapts and adjusts and steals ideas like any other good coach. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-1/697352/34 "2014-09-06T17:51:15Z")
To add: You know who’s a lot more innovative? Jim Harbaugh and Greg Roman. Almost everything Kelly does was taken from other people, but I’ve read several discussions from coaching types raving about the really creative blocking schemes they created at Stanford and brought to SF. (Again, nothing is ever _really_ new; a lot of it is resurgent 1970s style trap blocking) But because the stuff Kelly does that is somewhat atypical involves highly visible aspects – formations and what the guy with the ball is doing – he’s a genius. What Roman does involves line play and multiple TEs, it’s just “old-fashioned smashemouth.” ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-1/697352/35 "2014-09-06T20:55:20Z")
**furt** , I agree with just about everything you said. I think you understate how different Kelly is somewhat, but you’re right that he’s not zigging while everyone else zags. Some of the differences will probably become more apparent over time as people find ways to exploit the holes in it. Compare it to Andy Reid, he was different and very productive while using basically all the same plays, but eventually the differences became weaknesses (unwillingness to run the ball and undervaluing size). Kelly will almost certainly get put on his heels at some point, time will tell if he adapts. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-1/697352/36 "2014-09-07T00:25:32Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Please, spell out for me the syllogism drawing from this data that logically concludes with “therefore, Kelly’s ideas about practice structure and exercise science are not new, original or creative” Hell, spell out the one that logically concludes \*anything \*about his ideas about practice structure and exercise science. Did you quote the wrong post? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-1/697352/37 "2014-09-07T17:02:38Z")
Is there any way to get live stats on yahoo fantasy like stat tracker? Their app doesn’t quite do it. Not live, and not multiple leagues ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-1/697352/38 "2014-09-07T18:05:05Z")
Usually this level of non-effort waits for November. Hard to watch in week 1. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-1/697352/39 "2014-09-07T18:35:40Z")
I’m going to get up at 10, shit on my own face, and go back to bed. Overall, better experience. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-1/697352/40 "2014-09-07T18:47:07Z")
At least you aren’t losing to jax. Holy disappointment, Philly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-1/697352.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-1/697352.md?page=3)