# NFL Week 11 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 19, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/518209 "2009-11-19T22:30:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/518209/81 "2009-11-23T14:27:32Z")
Well played. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/518209/82 "2009-11-23T14:42:38Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well played. Yeah, 2 or three years ago. Incidentally, we need receivers again. There’s almost no way Calvin resigns with the Lions. I think we should trade him for a first-rounder and a following year’s second. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/518209/83 "2009-11-23T14:51:51Z")
Why wouldn’t he re-sign? Wide receivers want two things: money and the ball. He’ll get just as much of both in Detroit as he would anywhere else. As far as I’m concerned, the Buccaneers’ first-round prospects begin and end with Ndamukong Suh. I wanted them to draft B.J. Raji last year, and Glenn Dorsey the year before that. If we don’t take a franchise interior lineman to rebuild the defense around this year I might have to find a new team. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/518209/84 "2009-11-23T17:22:58Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Why wouldn’t he re-sign? Wide receivers want two things: money and the ball. He’ll get just as much of both in Detroit as he would anywhere else. > > As far as I’m concerned, the Buccaneers’ first-round prospects begin and end with Ndamukong Suh. I wanted them to draft B.J. Raji last year, and Glenn Dorsey the year before that. If we don’t take a franchise interior lineman to rebuild the defense around this year I might have to find a new team. Don’t wide receivers want to win too? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/518209/85 "2009-11-23T17:33:38Z")
Don’t think so. Randy Moss and Darrell Jackson went to Oakland for big paydays. Marvin Harrison remains on the couch even though the Colts would take him back in a heartbeat for the veterans’ minimum. David Boston went to San Diego for a huge payday when they were still crappy. TJ Houshmanzadeh went to Seattle. Torry Holt went to Jacksonville. Chris Chambers went to KC. Lee Evans keeps signing contract extensions with Buffalo. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/518209/86 "2009-11-23T17:39:33Z")
I’m not sure many of those are good examples. Moss and Chambers were trades, so they had no choice about it. Holt was still taking a step up, and going to a place where knew he could start, and they were a decent team lacking in receiving threats, so his presence (and their renewed health this year) could elevate them to a playoff team. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/518209/87 "2009-11-23T17:43:33Z")
Chambers wasn’t traded. He was traded _to_ San Diego, but they didn’t trade him, they cut him. On preview, it appears the Chiefs claimed him off waivers so he didn’t have a choice there either. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/518209/88 "2009-11-23T17:46:25Z")
Wouldn’t the Lions just franchise tag Johnson? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/518209/89 "2009-11-23T17:50:04Z")
Maybe, but you can’t do that for ever. It costs an extra 25-50% (I forget the exact amount) to franchise a guy for a second straight year - and the wideout franchise tag is the second most expensive (after quarterbacks, obviously). Interesting side note: the Giants tagged Brandon Jacobs this year. Pretty astonishing that he’s playing so badly in a contract year. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/518209/90 "2009-11-23T17:54:26Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Maybe, but you can’t do that for ever. It costs an extra 25-50% (I forget the exact amount) to franchise a guy for a second straight year - and the wideout franchise tag is the second most expensive (after quarterbacks, obviously). > > Interesting side note: the Giants tagged Brandon Jacobs this year. Pretty astonishing that he’s playing so badly in a contract year. I would have thought OT was the second most expensive franchise tag. Nonetheless, I think the Lions would do it with Johnson, he is a unique talent and still young and gives his developing QB a dependable target. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/518209/91 "2009-11-23T17:59:11Z")
He’s about the only guy on that team who can sell jerseys right now too. The closest thing they have to a star player. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/518209/92 "2009-11-23T18:03:48Z")
Pettigrew would start soon, I might guess. But TO signed with Buffalo. Course, they were probably the only ones who’d put up with him this time around. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/518209/93 "2009-11-23T18:06:08Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > I would have thought OT was the second most expensive franchise tag. Nonetheless, I think the Lions would do it with Johnson, he is a unique talent and still young and gives his developing QB a dependable target. From Wiki: > [@](#): > > Quarterback $14,651,000 > Offensive Linemen (includes Offensive Tackle, Offensive Guard, Center) $8,451,000 > Wide Receiver $9,884,000 > Running Back (includes all Fullbacks and Halfbacks) $6,621,000 > Tight end $4,462,000 > Defensive End $8,991,000 > Defensive Tackle $6,058,000 > Linebacker $8,304,000 > Cornerback $9,957,000 > Safety $6,342,000 > Kicker or Punter $2,483,000 Turns out it’s actually cornerback by a nose, thanks to Nnamdi Asomugha’s ridiculous contract. Offensive linemen are all grouped together for some reason, although it doesn’t matter because the top 5 salaried guys are almost certainly all left tackles anyway. I can see the Lions signing Johnson to a long-term deal, but I don’t think they’d franchise him except to give themselves more time to work out the deal. It just isn’t a good move in the long term unless you can win right away. Obviously, the Lions aren’t going to be a playoff team before Johnson’s contract is up. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/518209/94 "2009-11-23T18:18:57Z")
If I were the Lions I would look to possibly trade Calvin while his value is still high, then use the pick on the best LT available in the next draft and kick Backus to the curb. Or try to trade him for a current starting LT. Something. Then they could bring in a couple vet WR’s, use their other 1st rd pick on another offensive lineman and then outside of maybe a WR, draft nothing but defense the rest of the way. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/518209/95 "2009-11-23T18:23:07Z")
Nobody would trade a left tackle who’s as good as Johnson is straight up. Those guys are like gold dust. In any case, if you can’t re-sign Johnson what makes you think you’re going to re-sign that tackle? ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/518209/96 "2009-11-23T18:26:27Z")
Whoop! **GO CHARGERS!!!** :):eek::):eek::):eek:🙂 ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/518209/97 "2009-11-23T19:01:38Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Nobody would trade a left tackle who’s as good as Johnson is straight up. Those guys are like gold dust. In any case, if you can’t re-sign Johnson what makes you think you’re going to re-sign that tackle? I considered that no other team would trade their starting LT for a WR of any caliber, which is why I mentioned the possibility of the Lions trading Johnson to another team for their 1st round pick and then drafting one. The Lions aren’t going to win overnight, but they are _never_ going to win if they don’t get themselves a decent oline. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/518209/98 "2009-11-23T20:13:53Z")
Being at Lambeau I basically missed all the action from this week. Looks like there was some seriously weird stuff going on. > [@Omniscient](#): > > Well, kids, I have a confession to make. This weekend I’ll be making an excursion of sizable proportions. As of about 7PM Saturday I’ll be hieing my keister north into Cheeseland to visit enemy territory, into the mouth of the beast if you will, to make the pilgrimage to Lambeau Field to watch the loathed Packers play Bears’ legend Mike Singletary’s 49ers this Sunday at Noon. It’s an interesting matchup for several reasons but you can trust that I will be donning the Orange and Blue and representing the interests of all that is good and just amidst all the Moo and Oink’s. I will not be choking down any Miller Lite. It may inhale a Bratwurst or 4 and if cheese curd are present I won’t speak of the potential ramifications. If you are tuning in and watching as the Niners defense is planting Rodgers and you hear a lonely cheer followed but the sounds of a scuffle I hope you’ll give your thoughts and prayers to your good buddy **Omni**. [Here’s my recap](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11810274&postcount=628) from Lambeau over in the NFC North thread. > [@](#): > > ``` > Sunday, Nov. 22 > > ``` > > \*\* DETROIT 3½ Cleveland 37½ \*\* > It was just a few weeks ago that we were talking about a crap fest involving the Rams and Lions and I was wise to pick Steven Jackson in that game. The logic there was that Jackson was the best player on the field. This week the best players on the field are on the offensive side of the ball for the Lions. It’s strengthened by the short week for the Brownies. The Browns defense is playing solid but even the Lions can stop that offense. > > The Pick: **Lions 20 - Browns 14** I got the pick right but what in the hell was going on with all that scoring? How the hell did those 2 QBs combine for over 725 yards passing? The highlights of that finale were amazing. Definitely need to catch the replay of this one. I wonder how serious this injury to Stafford will be. That was a gutty throw at the end after he came back in after the timeout but he was in a ton of pain. > [@](#): > > \*\* JACKSONVILLE 9 Buffalo 43 \*\* > Ugh, the Jags are a frigging mystery to me. The Bills replaced their head coach and IIRC recent history actually favors new head coaches in their first couple games. Still, the Jag have MJD and the Bills run defense is terrible. That’s enough for me. > > The Pick: **Jaguars 26 - Bills 13** How the hell did the Bills hold MJD down? Who was the TO guy getting almost 200 yards and how did that lead to just 15 points? Strange final score. Lots of injuries for the Bills looking at the box score. > [@](#): > > \*\* Pittsburgh 10 KANSAS CITY 40 \*\* > The Steelers are secretly inconsistent and sloppy. But their defense is still aggressive and disruptive and the Chiefs offense has all kinds of issues. There will be penetration and the Chiefs running game is going to flounder. The loss of Bowe really won’t help anyone by Chambers’ fantasy owners. > > The Pick: **Steelers 24 - Chiefs 10** Completely goofy result here too. The Steelers are getting killed with injuries, Polamalu out again and maybe without their top 2 QBs for at least 1 week. Statistically this game looks like it should have been the blowout I predicted. It always makes me happy when the Steelers lose though. > [@](#): > > \*\* Indianapolis 1½ BALTIMORE 44 \*\* > This line is a joke. The Ravens have looked _terrible_ lately and that victory over the Browns read like a double digit loss. There’s no excuse for this to be nearly a pick 'em against a Colts team that just took down the Pats. Easy peasey. > > The Pick: **Colts 30 - Ravens 20** Well, the Colts covered! Told you so! This game must have either been really exciting or really sloppy. I wonder which. > [@](#): > > \*\* NY GIANTS 6½ Atlanta 46 \*\* > I’m a bit stumped on what to make of the Giants but I think I know what the Falcons are. Ryan is fully in a sophomore slump and he really plays shaky on the road against challenging defenses. They are without Turner and he’s the engine that makes them go. I like Snelling against the Giants defense for fantasy purposes but it won’t help the scoreboard and the Falcons run defense is secretly terrible. > > The Pick: **Giants 23 - Falcons 17** What the heck is wrong with the Giants running game? Also Ryan seems to have actually played halfway decent on the road. Yet my pick was still accurate, go figure. > [@](#): > > \*\* GREEN BAY 6½ San Francisco 42 \*\* > I’ll be at this game and I’ll be cheering for Alex frigging Smith. Screw it, no point is rationalizing it. Thems just the facts. Hopefully I see a lot of Aaron Rodgers cleats. > > The Pick: **Niners 17 - Packers 16** I picked with my heart and not my head but the late comeback salvaged the cover. Better to be lucky than good sometimes. Wonder if that Packers running game is for real, it makes them a much better team. It’ll be interesting to see how badly the loss of Kampman and Harris for the year hurts them, I bet pretty bad. > [@](#): > > \*\* MINNESOTA 10½ Seattle 46 \*\* > Blow out central. I’d love it if the Seahawks could surprise us here but it’d be a twisted bit of lunacy to argue for it’s likelihood. Is this going to be one of those AD monster games? You can be sure that the Vikes D will rack up an assload of sacks though. > > The Pick: **Vikings 33 - Seahawks 9** Missed it by just 2 points! Have I nailed a final score yet this year? Don’t think so. > [@](#): > > \*\* DALLAS 11 Washington 41½ \*\* > The fashionable pick here is to take the Redskins to cover. I won’t be suckered in. The Skins D is playing solid and the Cowboys looked pathetic in Green Bay last week but I think the pendulum swings the other way this week. The Cowboys offense will crank this week. > > The Pick: **Cowboys 27 - Redskins 7** For the second straight week the Cowboys offense is a mess. Against to decent defenses, but still. It never fails, the Pokes get you thinking they are good then they proceed to collapse. > [@](#): > > \*\* New Orleans 11 TAMPA BAY 51 \*\* > Can the Saints cover this number or are they going to play down to their competition once again? Will the Bucs and Freeman put together another surprisingly solid performance? Can the Saints stop the run and make Freeman throw the ball? > > The Pick: **Saints 24 - Buccaneers 20** At the half it looked like I might have guessed right on the answers to those questions. Then Freeman started playing like a rookie. > [@](#): > > \*\* Arizona 9 ST LOUIS 46½ \*\* > Hmm. I really want to take the Rams to cover here but it just doesn’t add up. Maybe Jackson has a good day but the Rams have no WRs and the Cards will throw the ball at will without any pass rush coming in their faces. > > The Pick: **Cardinals 30 - Rams 16** Maybe I should have stuck with my gut…but then again if Warner stays in the game I’d have probably nailed this. > [@](#): > > \*\* NEW ENGLAND 10½ NY Jets 45 \*\* > Painful loss last week for Belishit and they’ll be looking to exact revenge on the Jets for that and the loss earlier this season. The Jets are sloppy on offense and a little undermanned but the defense is still formidable. The loss of Jenkins will cost them a playoff spot but with the shaky Pats running game may not exploit that. Revis versus Moss will be an excellent thing to watch. On paper the Jets ought to cover this but the F-you factor is too much to wager against. > > The Pick: **Patriots 24 - Jets 10** Another one I actually read right, if only Revis could have played both Moss and Welker maybe they’d have had a chance. Sanchise keeps coughing up the ball. > [@](#): > > \*\* Cincinnati 9½ OAKLAND 36 \*\* > Let down game for the Bengals? I think not. > > The Pick: **Bengals 20 - Raiders 0** On second thought… My first instinct was that being without Benson must have really crippled them but looking at the box score they still managed 177 yards of rushing. Interesting. Goes to show that most of the time anyone can run behind a good line. Goodbye JaMarcus. > [@](#): > > \*\* San Diego 3 DENVER 45 \*\* > The Broncos officially suck ass. The Chris Simms experience will make Broncos fans want to puke, the only experience that will be worse is watching a one legged Orton 2 weeks from now. > > The Pick: **Chargers 40 - Broncos 16** I can’t believe they trotted out Orton in the second half. Both QBs performed pretty much exactly as I predicted. The only question is why I thought they’d score 16 points based on my comments. Seeing some dissension in Denver these days, maybe it was too soon to pat McDaniels on the back after 6 weeks. > [@](#): > > \*\* Philadelphia 3 CHICAGO 45 \*\* > Ugh. Ugh! This could be a serious kick in the nuts. Understand this, I’m not nearly ready to completely turn on the Bears but I couldn’t have less faith in this coaching staff and gameplan. The Eagles will blitz like mad and thus far Cutler and the protection haven’t even been in the vicinity of competent against it. Cutler has been shockingly bad in Primetime games and I’m trying to talk myself into having 2 night games in a row being a good thing. Maybe, just maybe, Cutler will have acclimated to the extra attention without having time to fatten up on the likes of the Browns and Lions. The only consolation is that the Bears defense is playing well, especially at home and the Eagles can absolutely crap the bed at any time. Screw it, you know who I’m picking but it makes me puke a little bit. > > The Pick: **Bears 23 - Eagles 21** Strangely I was pretty close to right. If only Cutler could have completed one of those damned wide open TD tosses. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/518209/99 "2009-11-24T02:27:12Z")
Has Vince Young always been this accurate? He’s really impressive tonight. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/518209/100 "2009-11-24T03:04:23Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Has Vince Young always been this accurate? He’s really impressive tonight. I don’t think so. He was really up and down as a rookie in 2007, and in 2008, well…yeah. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/518209.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/518209.md?page=6)