# Nfl week 11 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 17, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132 "2013-11-17T18:16:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/21 "2013-11-18T00:34:35Z")
“The quarterback was WELL outside the pocket…” Uhh, no. He \*might \*have been outside the strictest definition of the pocket, but he wasn’t well outside of anything. He was still inside the hashmarks for fuck’s sake. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/22 "2013-11-18T00:35:43Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > I see no reason to go away from Tolzien though, while we wait for Rodgers to get healthy. Hopefully it’s just one more game. How can you see no reason to go away from Tolzein? He’s bad. Really bad. I’ve seen every single reason he went undrafted, and why he is a third stringer on his third team in three years. Poor decision making. Inability to audible well. Questionable mobility. A “throw it up and hope my receiver can get it” type quarterbacking. Inaccurate, even on easy throws. Horrible red zone efficiency. He is a bad, bad quarterback. He can make some nice throws occasionally, and, if given a few years of intense QB training, he might be passable. But for now, he’s garbage. How many interceptions must he throw before you find a reason to go away from him? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/23 "2013-11-18T01:39:35Z")
So you think noodle-armed Matt Flynn who couldn’t even stay on at buffalo is the answer? I hat to break it to you but all of our options suck, Tolzien is the least sucky. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/24 "2013-11-18T05:00:21Z")
Senor Beef: noticeably absent. I keeed **Beef,** he’s a good guy, but somehow I think he and others thought the Bengals were somehow on the verge of collapse and that the Browns had finally “found their guy” in Jason Campbell. Not so! 'Twas a weird game for sure, but the dominance of the Bengals defense showed up yet again. I am telling you, if you have not watched my team play you owe it to yourself to catch a game. Their defense has kept them in every game this season, culminating in two losses in OT in a row and then smushing the Browns. Their defense is really good, and it comes with a lot of penalties that they must overcome as well. Weird NFL season so far. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/25 "2013-11-18T08:57:11Z")
> [@Jules\_Andre](#): > > San Francisco just literally got a penalty for tackling the QB. Not a hit to the head. Not a hit to the knees. Not late. A penalty for hitting the QB. I didn’t watch that game, but I googled it, and here’s what I found: > **[Watch Ahmad Brooks' controversial hit on Drew Brees](https://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/11/ahmad-brooks-drew-brees-gif)** > > The hit to Brees’ upper body resulted in a fumble overturned and a Saints first down. Looks like a clothesline to me. Yes, the initial contact with his hands was on the pads, but his bicep hit him right in the throat. Close call, but I agree with it. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/26 "2013-11-18T10:15:42Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > I didn’t watch that game, but I googled it, and here’s what I found: > > [Watch Ahmad Brooks' controversial hit on Drew Brees | For The Win](http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/11/ahmad-brooks-drew-brees-gif/) > > Looks like a clothesline to me. Yes, the initial contact with his hands was on the pads, but his bicep hit him right in the throat. Close call, but I agree with it. Looks like a good hard clean hit to me but the league has specifically gone out of it’s way to protect QBs so it shouldn’t surprise anyone. In other news that Bears-Ravens game in the rain and mud and wind was fun to watch. I love games like that. It’s fun to see how teams adapt. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/27 "2013-11-18T13:34:42Z")
> [@Jules\_Andre](#): > > Can someone please explain to me why spending a timeout to save one second before the two minute warning is preferable to spending a timeout to save 40 seconds after the two minute warning? The clock stops at the two-minute warning, so it’s either a play before it or after. It seemed to work out in the end. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/28 "2013-11-18T13:48:41Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > So you think noodle-armed Matt Flynn who couldn’t even stay on at buffalo is the answer? Sure. The backup QB doesn’t have to be amazing, just not lose you games, which is what Tolzien has done. So, yes, give me Flynn. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/29 "2013-11-18T14:01:15Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Sure. The backup QB doesn’t have to be amazing, just not lose you games, which is what Tolzien has done. So, yes, give me Flynn. Is the whole thing a[karma backlash](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16629354&postcount=60) against you? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/30 "2013-11-18T14:24:12Z")
Wandering a little ways off the topic of the games, I saw the new Chevy Silverado ad several times this Sunday. The one where the guy says _“Chevy Silverado, second to nobody…and by nobody, I mean Ram and Ford.”_ So what are you saying, guy? That Silverado is second to Ram and Ford? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/31 "2013-11-18T14:29:03Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Is the whole thing a[karma backlash](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16629354&postcount=60) against you? > > 😉 I seriously over-estimated Seneca Wallace’s abilities. Which makes it even worse that Tolzein was the third stringer behind him. And lest there be any doubt, the entirety of the NFL, especially the Packers, exist solely for my pleasure/pain and the outcome of every game is dependent not on the coaches and players, but upon me. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/32 "2013-11-18T14:57:19Z")
> [@Jules\_Andre](#): > > Can someone please explain to me why spending a timeout to save one second before the two minute warning is preferable to spending a timeout to save 40 seconds after the two minute warning? Here is a great break down of it near the end of the article. > **[» Thank You for Not Coaching, Week 5](https://grantland.com/the-triangle/thank-you-for-not-coaching-week-5/)** The basics is that by using your timeout before you get the clock stopped immeaditly after that play so you can pick up a couple of seconds that you would otherwise lose. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/33 "2013-11-18T15:09:01Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > [Watch Ahmad Brooks' controversial hit on Drew Brees | For The Win](http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/11/ahmad-brooks-drew-brees-gif/) > > Looks like a clothesline to me. Yes, the initial contact with his hands was on the pads, but his bicep hit him right in the throat. Close call, but I agree with it. _“Brooks appears to wrap Brees around the shoulders at first (causing Brees’ neck to extend like a cartoon turtle), but he then reaches up towards the neck as he finishes the tackle.”_ Cartoon turtle is right, his head stays in place while his body shifts until it’s snapped back like an errant dog on a leash. Close but I absolutely agree with the call. SF shot themselves in the [del]foot[/del] feet with this and the fair catch, dumb. Overall this finally was a week where the games played out more like I expected with the exception of Hou/Oak and Det/Pitt. It was the best picking week yet for several of us in a pool. Damn but there were some astonishing upsets throughout the first 10 weeks and certainly we’ve not seen the last. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/34 "2013-11-18T17:14:06Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > _“[…] but he then reaches up towards the neck as he finishes the tackle.”_ I don’t see this “reaches upward” part at all. The only thing that seems to move upward is an upper arm muscle of the tackler. His arm moves _down_ relative to his body after the impact. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/35 "2013-11-18T17:20:42Z")
It is close and I think in real time it is hard to fault the refs when it is so close ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/36 "2013-11-18T17:40:33Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Sure. The backup QB doesn’t have to be amazing, just not lose you games, which is what Tolzien has done. So, yes, give me Flynn. Looks like we’ll just have to agree to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/37 "2013-11-18T18:48:12Z")
There’s a buzz in Charlotte today that hasn’t been evident since they lost that horrific Jake Delhomme 5 INT playoff game to Arizona 5 years ago. Should be a good game tonight. Belichick and Brady have been really good following bye weeks. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/38 "2013-11-18T19:19:19Z")
Well, there was this sack, I think it was last week, where the QB was standing amidst a roil of bodies and a defender reached from under the pile and grabbed the QB’s ankles causing him to go down. It looked quite clean to me, but the refs said it was a bad tackle. Compared to some of the hits and tackles I have seen on QBs, it looked pretty minor. Officiating errors are just part of the game, and always have been. The Steelers won one of their SBs solely on the strength of bad officiating. They need to eliminate replay and accept that the zebras are imprecise (but hopefully unbiased and unbought) and that is how it goes. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/39 "2013-11-18T21:17:20Z")
Don’t look now, but the Saints are now 2nd in total offense, and 4th in total defense. And the defense continues to improve. Big, big game the Monday after next when the Saints go to Seattle. Winner will likely get the #1 seed in the NFC, and both teams have a huge homefield advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/40 "2013-11-18T21:21:36Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > I don’t see this “reaches upward” part at all. The only thing that seems to move upward is an upper arm muscle of the tackler. His arm moves _down_ relative to his body after the impact. Look at the picture after the .gif. Brooks hand may have started at the top of Brees’ pad but the tackle came from the neck and before Brees is down Brook’s hand is over the pad and the arm is around the neck. No way the Zebras don’t call that. The look on Brees’ face right before the hit is priceless, though. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132.md?page=3)