# Nfl week 11 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 17, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132 "2013-11-17T18:16:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/61 "2013-11-19T14:43:17Z")
how much will Tom Brady get fined for cussing at the ref smh so classless and disrespectful ---
**Author:** ![Pixel\_Dent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@Pixel\_Dent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixel_Dent)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/62 "2013-11-19T15:16:22Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > I don’t know, I just don’t see [that](http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=331118029). To me it looks like Gronk never attempts to change direction and his own momentum continues to take him toward the back of the end zone. One former official being interviewed today agreed with my opinion of the play. Even if the catch were determined to be uncatchable that doesn’t change it from Pass Interference to no penalty, it changes it from Pass Interference to defensive holding since it was beyond the 5 yard limit. So even if you think the officials were correct in overruling pass interference, they screwed up in not calling it defensive holding. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/63 "2013-11-19T16:31:08Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I was down by one point in my money league with the panthers defense. Then I get a fucking interception on the last play of the gaaaaaaaame! Wooooooo! I was down by two and a half, so I reeeealllly needed a sack prior to the interception. Dammit. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/64 "2013-11-19T16:37:20Z")
I was hoping for the sack-strip-fumble recovery too. It would have given me the high score for the week (which gets you 1/50th of the prize pool) - but I think the football gods might be angered if I demanded more. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/65 "2013-11-19T19:00:24Z")
That was hardly the worst call ever, I would call it a marginally bad call, but given how many times I had to hear they don’t call PI on Hail Mary passes after the Packers-Seahawks game I don’t have much sympathy for the Patriots. Gronk was never ever going to catch that ball, but there probably should have been defensive holding. But you know what, receivers and TEs get away with so much crap and the Pats (as has every team) has benefited from calls, I can hardly raise my ire past “meh”. And it isn’t a big deal that they threw the flag and then picked up. One ref is looking at the interference and the other refs are looking at the pass and they decide if it is catchable or not. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/66 "2013-11-19T20:29:46Z")
The Bill Barnwell article on the no call puts the Patriot’s chance of a touchdown at 30% if they get the defensive holding call. It was a bad call, but it didn’t give the Panthers the game, and wasn’t particularly exceptional. ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/67 "2013-11-19T22:48:23Z")
Just want to go back to the 49ers/Saints call (because I didn’t have a chance earlier). By the letter of the rules, it was the wrong call. The rules require a **forcible** blow to the head or neck, which this was not. It was a forcible blow to the chest and shoulders and incidental contact to the neck.It was flagged because it looked like a vicious hit at full speed. It was a bad call, albeit an understandable one (I think the ref that threw the flag was behind Brees and wouldn’t have seen where the arm hit to begin with). The Patriots/Panthers call is really complicated. I can see it either way (The DB was jumping that route by the time Gronk was touched, so I’m not sure if that counts as “catchable”). In an unrelated but interesting note, imagine what the fallout would be if the Patriots get thst PI call in the endzone on the last play to get an untimed down to win the game. Impossible situation for the refs, they’re getting ripped either way. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/68 "2013-11-19T23:29:21Z")
I think the call at the end is probably technically correct – since as far as I can tell Gronk couldn’t have realistically gotten a hand on it – but it is inconsistent with the way the rule is usually applied. Refs typically give receivers _a lot_ of benefit of the doubt in the way of “Well if he wasn’t interfered with maybe he could have gotten to it.” There are tons of actually uncatchable passes that don’t get called as such because the ball was close in absolute terms, like this one was. A more interesting call, I thought, was the defensive holding penalty on McCourty against Olsen. McCourty was screaming bloody murder about Olsen faking out the refs … and he was right. There was a bit of tangling at the bump, at which point Olsen grabbed McCourty and pulled him backwards, into his own chest, which made it look like McCourty was the one maintaining the contact. Even McCourty’s immediately throwing up his hands couldn’t save him. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/69 "2013-11-19T23:45:35Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > Even McCourty’s immediately throwing up his hands couldn’t save him. I always assume that a player throwing his hands up is basically a confession. ---
**Author:** ![bobzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@bobzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobzero)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/70 "2013-11-19T23:58:04Z")
**The patriots lost, and I’m a patriot fan, there was no foul, good reviews by the refs, the control the game in this don’t bump me league, I miss old school football!** ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/71 "2013-11-20T01:54:13Z")
Even if the PI shouldn’t have been called due to Gronk possibly not being able to catch the ball, then defensive holding should have been the call. Because you can’t deny that Kuechly wasn’t holding Gronk, and they were also past five yards from the LOS. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/72 "2013-11-20T20:18:13Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Even if the PI shouldn’t have been called due to Gronk possibly not being able to catch the ball, then defensive holding should have been the call. Because you can’t deny that Kuechly wasn’t holding Gronk, and they were also past five yards from the LOS. Agreed. It also would have been consistent with how they were calling the rest of the game, which was pretty tight when it came to interference and holding. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/73 "2013-11-21T13:12:48Z")
Week 12 [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16866322#post16866322). ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/74 "2013-11-21T16:29:51Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Even if the PI shouldn’t have been called due to Gronk possibly not being able to catch the ball, then defensive holding should have been the call. Because you can’t deny that Kuechly wasn’t holding Gronk, and they were also past five yards from the LOS. But once the ball is thrown there’s no holding (or illegal contact), right? Did the contact happen once the ball was already in the air? I haven’t seen a clip that shows whether it did or not. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132/75 "2013-11-22T05:00:21Z")
There’s no illegal contact, but my understanding is that holding is holding. Might be wrong. Gronk was certainly bracketed by the defender’s arms – does that count as holding? I don’t know. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-11/674132.md?page=3)