# NFL Week 12 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 22, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789 "2011-11-22T20:12:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/61 "2011-11-24T20:42:36Z")
> [@Jules\_Andre](#): > > The most bizarre thing about Suh is how good he is off the field. Soft spoken, intelligent, comes off as a genuine person with the media. He’s either the world’s greatest con man or he’s a real life Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde. That’s how Dick Butkus was. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/62 "2011-11-24T20:45:06Z")
Nice second half by the Packers. Sure the Lions helped by beating themselves, but the Packers defense got the turnovers and the offense looked good in the second half. 11-0! ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/63 "2011-11-24T21:26:27Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > That’s how Dick Butkus was. You just made that name up. Admit it. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/64 "2011-11-24T21:30:35Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Nice second half by the Packers. Sure the Lions helped by beating themselves, but the Packers defense got the turnovers and the offense looked good in the second half. 11-0! Yeah you know the Lions had this game circled on their calendar for weeks now and they were the better team early, but still they couldn’t convert and made mistakes. The Packers get a road win in the division on a short week, that is something I will take every time. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/65 "2011-11-24T23:01:10Z")
> [@Jules\_Andre](#): > > The most bizarre thing about Suh is how good he is off the field. Soft spoken, intelligent, comes off as a genuine person with the media. He’s either the world’s greatest con man or he’s a real life Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde. I’d be more likely to believe that Suh is a “genuine person with the media” if he stopped fucking lying. He’s saying the only thing wrong he did was give the officials a chance to eject him over a misunderstanding, and that he didn’t intentionally stomp on Dietrich Smith. Genuine my ass. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/66 "2011-11-24T23:12:55Z")
Yeah, the idea that he was just trying to regain his balance, as he claimed in the press conference, is completely ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![DadWagonDriver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/edb3f5/32.png) [@DadWagonDriver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DadWagonDriver)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/67 "2011-11-24T23:15:55Z")
I’m a Lions fan and I still think his excuse is ridiculous. I can’t even homer my way out of this one. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/68 "2011-11-25T00:02:29Z")
I was happy for the Lions this year. Not now. Fuck 'em. Bunch of talentless assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/69 "2011-11-25T00:11:10Z")
Oh yeah, the case could made for Woodson being the defensive MVP of the year. Fuck Detroit. Fuck their dirty players and fuck their dirty failing city. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/70 "2011-11-25T01:07:15Z")
> [@Laggard](#): > > Fuck Detroit. Fuck their dirty players and fuck their dirty failing city. It takes a particular type of fortitude and moral vision to use a football game as a platform for ridiculing the victims of deindustrialization and urban decay. I salute you for your courage and clear-sightedness, and hope that you get everything you deserve in life. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/71 "2011-11-25T01:23:38Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > It takes a particular type of fortitude and moral vision to use a football game as a platform for ridiculing the victims of deindustrialization and urban decay. > > I salute you for your courage and clear-sightedness, and hope that you get everything you deserve in life. It’s just a game. Perhaps I went too far hating on the city. The Lions though deserve everything bad that happens to them. So Fuck the lions and god-speed to Detroit. ---
**Author:** ![Miltonyz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Miltonyz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miltonyz)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/72 "2011-11-25T01:59:06Z")
> [@Jules\_Andre](#): > > The most bizarre thing about Suh is how good he is off the field. Soft spoken, intelligent, comes off as a genuine person with the media. He’s either the world’s greatest con man or he’s a real life Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde. No doubt. Every interview I have heard from him he comes across as an very bright and personable guy. I guess that plus being a Lion fan has made me reluctant to believe he is a dirty player. But he stomped on a downed player, there is no way to misinterpet that. So screw him. I think that our coach has a lot to do with our current problems. We needed some swagger back but we are putting swagger ahead of discipline. Combine that with a lot of sloppy play that points to lack of focus and we have a recipe for underperformance. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/73 "2011-11-25T02:20:46Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > That half time performance was an embarrassment on a few levels. Was that really worth the payout, Nickleback? I hear that one of the members of Nickelback is a huge Lions fan and was really psyched to be playing halftime during Thanksgiving. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/74 "2011-11-25T02:25:07Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > That’s how Dick Butkus was. Except a lot of the stuff Suh does now was probably legal play when Butkus was doing it… ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/75 "2011-11-25T05:02:29Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > After the talking-to he already got from Goodell he ought to be suspended for a game or two in addition to the fine he’s guaranteed to get. I wish I could have seen the look on Goodell’s face when that happened, you know he’s watching the only game on right now. Didn’t Haynesworth get four games for stomping Gurode? ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/76 "2011-11-25T05:39:45Z")
That sucked. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/77 "2011-11-25T05:42:43Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Didn’t Haynesworth get four games for stomping Gurode? Yeah, but that was a helmetless head, much more severe in import and potential injury. That said, if he got 4 games, especially after his press statement, nobody would complain. ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/78 "2011-11-25T07:59:35Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I’d be more likely to believe that Suh is a “genuine person with the media” if he stopped fucking lying. He’s saying the only thing wrong he did was give the officials a chance to eject him over a misunderstanding, and that he didn’t intentionally stomp on Dietrich Smith. Genuine my ass. I just want to point out that I said he came off as genuine, not that he was. And now with his rant with the media (which hadn’t been revealed when I posted), obviously we see he isn’t. That doesn’t change the rest of his career in which he very much came off as a genuine, likable person off the field, despite the horrific things he did on the field. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/79 "2011-11-25T16:51:45Z")
It seems to me that Suh is showing sociopathic behavior, and I’m no psychiatrist so please don’t take that as a professional evaluation or anything. Yes I think he acts like a thug and a jerk on the field, but they way he looked at Jim Shorts when he was ejected seems like he didn’t get why. Or maybe he’s just a good actor. In any case, I can appreciate his talent and how hard he plays the game, but he’s not doing himself any favors with his extracurricular activities on the field and I really don’t think his coach is helping him much either. Just about everyone on the team looks like a thug after the way they’ve played in the past month or so, Schwartz included. Suh might have been better off getting drafted by a team with a coach who can push his energies and abilities while tempering the harder stuff. Who wouldn’t appreciate watching one of the best football players in a generation? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/80 "2011-11-25T16:54:05Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Yeah you know the Lions had this game circled on their calendar for weeks now and they were the better team early, but still they couldn’t convert and made mistakes. The Packers get a road win in the division on a short week, that is something I will take every time. Two things that impressed me was that, for the most part, they kept their cool in a game full of chippiness, and that they did so with three backups (at guard, both ILB’s). The youth and depth on this team is quite encouraging. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789.md?page=5)