# NFL Week 12 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 22, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789 "2011-11-22T20:12:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/81 "2011-11-25T17:26:31Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Two things that impressed me was that, for the most part, they kept their cool in a game full of chippiness, and that they did so with three backups (at guard, both ILB’s). The youth and depth on this team is quite encouraging. Who knows if it’s a bit of post-win revisionism, but the Packers have claimed that part of their game plan was assuming the Lions would screw themselves over with defensive penalties and simply to take it easy and let it happen. If that’s true, it wouldn’t be a bad idea for the other teams on the Lions’ schedule to emulate. That team is a little more than “chippy”. ---
**Author:** ![2gigch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2gigch1/32/3313_2.png) [@2gigch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2gigch1)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/82 "2011-11-25T17:54:51Z")
Since nobody else is saying a damn thing about it, I’ll say it: Yay Ravens! That is all. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/83 "2011-11-25T18:34:27Z")
> [@2gigch1](#): > > Since nobody else is saying a damn thing about it, I’ll say it: > > Yay Ravens! > > That is all. Woohoo! That was a great performance by the defense, and a not-great-but-not-especially-shitty performance by the offense against a very good 49ers defense. The Ravens got a bit lucky with a couple of calls. I think the calls were correct, but they were borderline enough that they could have gone the other way. Terrell Suggs is a monster, and had a monster game. His three sacks were key. Actually, sacks were really the difference. Smith and Flacco threw about the same number of times, for about the same number of yards, but Flacco didn’t get sacked once, while Smith went down 9 times for total losses of over 40 yards. In a game where total net yards for both teams combined barely broke 400, that’s significant. ---
**Author:** ![2gigch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2gigch1/32/3313_2.png) [@2gigch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2gigch1)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/84 "2011-11-25T20:46:32Z")
Been surfing the ravens24x7 message board all day from work. I’m just happy they got by that one. The rest of the year looks manageable at this point. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/85 "2011-11-25T20:49:00Z")
Yeah, but i also thought that the Seahawks would be “manageable.” :smack: ---
**Author:** ![2gigch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2gigch1/32/3313_2.png) [@2gigch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2gigch1)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/86 "2011-11-25T21:01:34Z")
True. It’s wierd, they seem to play down to the weaker teams, but up to the strong ones. Which I guess is good, since the playoffs only have the good teams. ---
**Author:** ![Phlint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c89c15/32.png) [@Phlint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlint)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/87 "2011-11-25T21:12:21Z")
> [@2gigch1](#): > > since the playoffs only have the good teams. That’s not always true. There’s going to be a team from the AFC West in the playoffs this year, and I’m still not willing to admit the Seahawks were any good last year, despite the fact that they somehow won a playoff game. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/88 "2011-11-25T21:31:44Z")
> [@Phlint](#): > > That’s not always true. There’s going to be a team from the AFC West in the playoffs this year, and I’m still not willing to admit the Seahawks were any good last year, despite the fact that\*\* they somehow won a playoff game.\*\* The Seahawks home field advantage is pretty significant. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/89 "2011-11-25T22:25:41Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Except a lot of the stuff Suh does now was probably legal play when Butkus was doing it… Definitely. Although I meant more of the “asshole on the field, nice guy off it” thing. ---
**Author:** ![hazynlazy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/bb73d2/32.png) [@hazynlazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hazynlazy)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/90 "2011-11-27T01:49:36Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Nice second half by the Packers. Sure the Lions helped by beating themselves, but the Packers defense got the turnovers **and the offense looked good in the second half**. 11-0! (bolding mine) Well the Lions were missing 3 of their best 4 defensive players\* in the 2nd half (Suh, Delmas and Houston…with Tulloch being the other, but he was still playing). I’d say the job the Lions defense did has gone overlooked because of all of the other story lines from this game. For all the talk of the Packers offensive dominance, I remember reading somewhere that they’ve faced nothing but poor pass-defending teams all season until the Lions game. Then, when the Lions had their full group in during the first half, they held the Packers to 86 yards in the first half and 7 points (coming off a TO). Don’t get me wrong. The Packers are certainly a better team. Their defense is underrated, and the Lions offense is quite overrated, especially as Stafford continues to throw picks. But the Lions defense’s performance in the first half, while a small sample size, suggests to me that the Packers may be more containable than we think. Or maybe I’m just a blind Lions fan. 😕 \*I suppose a case could be made for Wright or Levy as one of the top 4 Lions defensive players. Regardless, my point is beating backups Aaron Berry, Brandon McDonald, and WR Rashied Davis forced to play CB because of injuries, isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/91 "2011-11-27T01:56:34Z")
The Bengals better beat the Browns, or I might get angry at **SenorBeef** and take it out on him in Battlefield…I can just FEEL him quaking in his boots right now… ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/92 "2011-11-27T14:04:28Z")
> [@hazynlazy](#): > > Or maybe I’m just a blind Lions fan. 😕 Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/93 "2011-11-27T14:45:25Z")
> [@hazynlazy](#): > > (bolding mine) > > Well the Lions were missing 3 of their best 4 defensive players\* in the 2nd half (Suh, Delmas and Houston…with Tulloch being the other, but he was still playing). > > I’d say the job the Lions defense did has gone overlooked because of all of the other story lines from this game. For all the talk of the Packers offensive dominance, I remember reading somewhere that they’ve faced nothing but poor pass-defending teams all season until the Lions game. Then, when the Lions had their full group in during the first half, they held the Packers to 86 yards in the first half and 7 points (coming off a TO). > > Don’t get me wrong. The Packers are certainly a better team. Their defense is underrated, and the Lions offense is quite overrated, especially as Stafford continues to throw picks. But the Lions defense’s performance in the first half, while a small sample size, suggests to me that the Packers may be more containable than we think. Or maybe I’m just a blind Lions fan. 😕 > > \*I suppose a case could be made for Wright or Levy as one of the top 4 Lions defensive players. Regardless, my point is beating backups Aaron Berry, Brandon McDonald, and WR Rashied Davis forced to play CB because of injuries, isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement No, I think you’re right about the Detroit defense. And if not for the Stafford picks…its not like the Lions were totally unable to move the ball on offense either. They were and they did. They just kept killing themselves with turnovers, good teams make you pay in points for those, and Green Bay is a good team. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/94 "2011-11-27T16:03:33Z")
Cinci couldn’t sell out their game even though they’re doing well and it’s a pretty important game in divisional standings. That’s odd - usually when they have a winning record all of their bandwagon fan base comes out from their holes. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/95 "2011-11-27T17:15:25Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Cinci couldn’t sell out their game even though they’re doing well and it’s a pretty important game in divisional standings. That’s odd - usually when they have a winning record all of their bandwagon fan base comes out from their holes. 9% unemployment, jaded unconvinced fans leftover from the dark era of the 1990’s to early 2000’s…and the Bengals lost a LOT of season ticket holders after last season. Don’t get me wrong: its lame that the Browns have been pretty much as equally terrible as the Bengals over the same stretch of time yet manage to sell out most all of their home games…but Cleveland is a larger city located in the most populous county in Ohio too…and Mike Brown isn’t your owner… And they are coming off two straight losses…if they had managed to win one of those two games I think we might have sold out. But you’re right: we have a lot of bandwagon fans too. I detest them, mostly corporate stiffs that work for Proctor and Gamble… ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/96 "2011-11-27T17:26:41Z")
I can’t find the data on it, but I think the last time the Browns failed to sell out a game was at least several decades ago. If the Browns had 7 wins and were in contention for the division win, there’d be 400,000 people lining up to buy those tickets. It’s weird because the Bengals fans have always been amongst the most fair weather of fans (not you personally, just as a whole), so if anything you’d expect them to support the team now. ---
**Author:** ![Cumbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@Cumbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumbrian)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/97 "2011-11-27T18:11:47Z")
The UK’s early game today is Houston @ Jacksonville. 3 and out from the Jags but already Matt Leinart is behind. Arian Foster fumbles and returned for a TD. I guess we’ll find out if Leinart can do much now - Jags defense is pretty decent. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/98 "2011-11-27T18:19:01Z")
The baroque NFL TV policies strike again. The Bears are in Oakland and playing a late game and we in Chicago get punished with a meaningless AFC matchup between the Jets and Bills and no NFC game on Fox. When the Bears kickoff an interesting Pats-Eagles game kicks off on CBS but we naturally won’t be watching that. Why exactly can’t I have 2 games on at a time when I might actually want to flip back and forth or exercise some personal choice? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/99 "2011-11-27T18:37:20Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > The baroque NFL TV policies strike again. The Bears are in Oakland and playing a late game and we in Chicago get punished with a meaningless AFC matchup between the Jets and Bills and no NFC game on Fox. When the Bears kickoff an interesting Pats-Eagles game kicks off on CBS but we naturally won’t be watching that. Why exactly can’t I have 2 games on at a time when I might actually want to flip back and forth or exercise some personal choice? If only there were a way to watch the other games. Say, streaming over the internet, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789/100 "2011-11-27T18:49:12Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > If only there were a way to watch the other games. Say, streaming over the internet, maybe? But I am so lazy and so fond of my couch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/603789.md?page=6)