# NFL Week 12 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 22, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/641859 "2012-11-22T19:49:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/641859/81 "2012-11-26T02:00:51Z")
**Nerd** -The AFC WC will be Indy and Cincy. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/641859/82 "2012-11-26T02:18:29Z")
The key games next week (team needing the win listed 1st) WASH V. NYG DAL V. PHI NO V. ATL STL V. SF MIA V. NE ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/641859/83 "2012-11-26T02:19:43Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > It was a pass to Ray Rice that traveled about 4 yards in the air. The other 25 yards were almost all Rice - a big block from Boldin sprung him for the last 3. That’s Flacco’s MO. Who’s his receiving leader year in and out? Why, it’s Ray Rice, the RUNNING BACK. I think this fact alone, as it never seems to get brought up, should completely end this “Is Flacco elite?” bullshit. If the Ravens defense can keep it together, the Ravens have a slightly more talented Dilfer to not fuck it up for them. Otherwise, their offense just isn’t very good. > [@Enginerd](#): > > Yeah, but Miami still has to play home and away against NE and in San Francisco this year - I don’t see them winning any of those. The AFC WCs are going to be Indy and whoever ends up second in the North - Cincy if Roethlisberger doesn’t come back at full strength, Pittsburgh if he does. > [@etv78](#): > > **Nerd** -The AFC WC will be Indy and Cincy. Watch out for those Bengals of mine! Yeah, they’ve beaten three crappy (NY GIANTS?) teams in a row…but schedule is as schedule does, Forrest. 6-5 with 5 games left, three of which are against the Eagles, Cowboys and San Diego. The way they have been playing I like those chances. Plus the Steelers are suddenly weak (another game) and it’s quite possible the Ravens aren’t playing for anything in week 18…resting their starters. Betta watch out! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/641859/84 "2012-11-26T03:05:45Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > … followed by the Giants beating down the Pack. Man, I wish someone had smack-talked-back on that one… ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/641859/85 "2012-11-26T06:42:37Z")
Anyone know where I can find a replay of Kyle Williams’ injury in the 49ers/Saints game? He looked like he was in a lot of pain, the way he was grabbing at his knee. Made me feel really bad for him. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/641859/86 "2012-11-26T11:43:39Z")
Just want to comment on the incredible one handed touchdown by Bengals rookie Mohammed Sanu, what a play. I wonder if the poster who had referred to him as unathletic when he got drafted will return to eat crow. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/641859/87 "2012-11-26T14:36:09Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Aaaaaand the Ravens pull a win out of Turner’s rear. This game was the third time this year that the Chargers held an opponent scoreless for an entire half. Their record in these games is 0-3. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/641859/88 "2012-11-26T15:30:45Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > That’s Flacco’s MO. Who’s his receiving leader year in and out? Why, it’s Ray Rice, the RUNNING BACK. I think this fact alone, as it never seems to get brought up, should completely end this “Is Flacco elite?” bullshit. If the Ravens defense can keep it together, the Ravens have a slightly more talented Dilfer to not fuck it up for them. Otherwise, their offense just isn’t very good. I agree with this criticism, having always considered the RB and (to a lesser extent) the TE as the cowardly safety-valve outlet. Be a man and throw it to a wide receiver. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/641859/89 "2012-11-26T15:44:37Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I agree with this criticism, having always considered the RB and (to a lesser extent) the TE as the cowardly safety-valve outlet. Be a man and throw it to a wide receiver. Reminds me of [this](http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2006/11/f-k-it-im-throwing-it-downfield.html). Don’t look now, but the Browns have a real chance to win 3 in a row with Oakland and KC coming up. I’m sure they’ll piss away one if not both of those games. I know I should feel great that we beat the Steelers, and I am happy about that, but winning by 6 while forcing 8 turnovers does not inspire confidence. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/641859/90 "2012-11-26T15:59:43Z")
If the Browns start to go on a win streak here, it’ll make all of the stupidly blown close games early in the season seem even dumber. I’m growing to hate these 6-10 type seasons to be honest. If you’re going to be terrible, just be utterly awful, start again, get a nice draft pick. Around mid season, it seemed like it was an extremely young team full of rookies in critical positions starting to come together, and then, no… they’re not really coming together, everyone still sucks. I don’t know what to think. They very well could win 3 in a row here, but it’s hard to give a shit. Edit: I’d rather sweep the Steelers, blowing them out of the wildcard race. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/641859/91 "2012-11-26T16:05:11Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I agree with this criticism, having always considered the RB and (to a lesser extent) the TE as the cowardly safety-valve outlet. Be a man and throw it to a wide receiver. You have a lot of macho identity tied up into football. ---
**Author:** ![2gigch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2gigch1/32/3313_2.png) [@2gigch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2gigch1)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/641859/92 "2012-11-26T16:07:02Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I agree with this criticism, having always considered the RB and (to a lesser extent) the TE as the cowardly safety-valve outlet. Be a man and throw it to a wide receiver. Seriously? The answer to that is 9-2. If he tried to chuck it to a wide receiver then the Ravens lose. How manly is that? ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/641859/93 "2012-11-26T16:22:24Z")
> [@2gigch1](#): > > If he tried to chuck it to a wide receiver then the Ravens lose. Nah, the Chargers would still have found a way to lose. Maybe they’d have given up two safeties while trying to run out the clock. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/641859/94 "2012-11-26T16:24:58Z")
The Browns should be there with all the other 6 win teams if they didn’t have a dumbass of a head coach. Shurmur needs to go. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/641859/95 "2012-11-26T16:30:22Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > Man, I wish someone had smack-talked-back on that one… Thanksgiving weekend took a great majority of my time, so I didn’t get a chance to smack talk back, but, if it’s any consolation, I had no confidence the Packers could go into New York and beat the Giants at home with the massive amount of injuries they had been suffering. I suppose I could have said: “Yeah, the Packers’ will go into New York and not get blown out, take that! We don’t need our top two defensive players, including an ex DPOY and a mulitiple Pro Bowler. We don’t need our first string ILB nor his backup, we’ll go ahead with our third stringer. We don’t need any of our recent first round draft picks at all, including two of our last three Offensive Tackles who were supposed to anchor our O Line against the Giants pass rush! We don’t need our #1 WR, our #1 RB, or our #3 CB! We’ll kick your sorry asses without any of those, just like you would if the Giants were without Victor Cruz, JPP, Ahmad Bradshaw, David Diehl and William Beatty, Kiwanuka, Blackburn, and Antrel Rolle.” Yeah, you wouldn’t have gotten much good smack talk in return from our walking MASH unit of a team. But hopefully we’ll get another shot when it really matters in the playoffs. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/641859/96 "2012-11-26T16:37:10Z")
Obviously, Bululaga is a big loss, but I don’t see what difference losing Woodson and Matthews makes. The defense was ranked dead last in 2011 with them, and 17th this season mostly without them. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/641859/97 "2012-11-26T17:20:16Z")
> [@2gigch1](#): > > Seriously? > > The answer to that is 9-2. If he tried to chuck it to a wide receiver then the Ravens lose. How manly is that? I’m not talking about that one play. I’m talking about if your top receiver is the running back. > [@Hamlet](#): > > I suppose I could have said: “Yeah, the Packers’ will go into New York and not get blown out, take that! We don’t need our top two defensive players, including an ex DPOY and a mulitiple Pro Bowler. We don’t need our first string ILB nor his backup, we’ll go ahead with our third stringer. We don’t need any of our recent first round draft picks at all, including two of our last three Offensive Tackles who were supposed to anchor our O Line against the Giants pass rush! We don’t need our #1 WR, our #1 RB, or our #3 CB! We’ll kick your sorry asses without any of those, just like you would if the Giants were without Victor Cruz, JPP, Ahmad Bradshaw, David Diehl and William Beatty, Kiwanuka, Blackburn, and Antrel Rolle.” As a Giants fan you get no sympathy from me. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/641859/98 "2012-11-26T17:26:12Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Obviously, Bululaga is a big loss, but I don’t see what difference losing Woodson and Matthews makes. The defense was ranked dead last in 2011 with them, and 17th this season mostly without them. I must admit, you’ve kinda shocked me with this. I just kinda assume that most people think that having great players, rather than mediocre ones, make a difference to a defense. YMMV. (As an aside, saying the defense was ranked dead last last year is true only if the only thing you think matters to a defense is pass yardage accumulated, rather than something like scoring (19th) or interceptions (1st), or passer rating allowed (top 10). Personally, I don’t think yards allowed per game is the best way to determine which team ranks last.) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/641859/99 "2012-11-26T17:40:42Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I must admit, you’ve kinda shocked me with this. I just kinda assume that most people think that having great players, rather than mediocre ones, make a difference to a defense. YMMV. > > (As an aside, saying the defense was ranked dead last last year is true only if the only thing you think matters to a defense is pass yardage accumulated, rather than something like scoring (19th) or interceptions (1st), or passer rating allowed (top 10). Personally, I don’t think yards allowed per game is the best way to determine which team ranks last.) Normally, yes, but since the scoring defense is _also_ better this year, it’s clear which losses matter and which don’t. ---
**Author:** ![2gigch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2gigch1/32/3313_2.png) [@2gigch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2gigch1)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/641859/100 "2012-11-26T17:47:09Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I’m not talking about that one play. I’m talking about if your top receiver is the running back. If the running back is one of the league’s best, most versatile backs, I’m fine with it. Fans of teams who have established pass oriented offenses may not recognize what it look like for a team to modify it’s style from a conservative, run oriented play style to something more aggressive. That’s what the Ravens decided to do this year and that usually means a losing season before they get it right. There will be good days (Week 1 v Bengals, week 10 v Raiders), and there will be bad days, but they are learning and they are winning, and that works for me. Are there games when Joe is asked not to win the game, but rather not to lose it? Yes there are. And he has. So my answer goes back to 9-2. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/641859.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/641859.md?page=6)