# NFL Week 12 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 25, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/738567 "2015-11-25T18:10:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/738567/41 "2015-12-01T04:37:22Z")
Well that was dramatic. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/738567/42 "2015-12-01T04:39:12Z")
Now that was a fucking game! ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/738567/43 "2015-12-01T04:43:31Z")
Sorry, **SenorBeef**. The Ravens just have some kind of black magic over Cleveland. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/738567/44 "2015-12-01T05:18:31Z")
Immediately after the blocked kick return TD, the first thing Mike Tirico did was to praise John Harbaugh. ‘And that’s why he’s such a great coach! Always has his guys ready to play hard,’ or something to that effect. Really, Mike? I didn’t see him block that kick. Isn’t it a more accurate description of events to say that Harbaugh’s mediocre-to-bad team came within an inch of losing to one of the worst teams, but they were bailed out by a play that was 30% Cleveland’s SNAFU-ing the field goal and 60% luck? On the other hand, that’s probably not the best line for a play-by-play announcer to take at the end of the dramatic game.\* “Will Hill scoops up the ball, gets a block, and he’s gonna SCORE! Wow! What a negation of meaning and causality! Truly, a monument to the pointlessness of striving, and the absurdity of the cruel hoax of reason!”\* ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/738567/45 "2015-12-01T05:49:21Z")
[Yep](http://i.imgur.com/CcwGR9q.png). Apparently the returner ran out of bounds at the 30 yard line, which actually makes it the third time poor officiating failed to turn over the last significant play of the game. San Diego bobbled a non-interception to seal the game when it shouldn’t have been a turnover at all, and I forget the exact circumstances but an obvious off-sides was not called on a critical last offensive play in another game. If it were the Pats or the Steelers, those calls would not have been missed. Edit: Joe Reedy ‏ @ joereedy 4m 4 minutes ago This is the 42nd # Browns last-minute loss since 1999 and the 22nd time it has happened on the last play. Can you imagine? 42 of these. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/738567/46 "2015-12-01T13:14:16Z")
Do Cleveland fans were targets on their crotches? It sure must feel like it at times. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/738567/47 "2015-12-01T14:16:45Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > If it were the Pats … those calls would not have been missed. Depends on the crew, but[yes, they would](http://uproxx.com/sports/2015/11/questionable-calls-against-patriots-in-first-loss-to-broncos/). ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/738567/48 "2015-12-01T16:30:27Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I don’t know if there’s a tougher QB in the league than Josh McCown. That dude has endured so much punishment (mostly physical, but also mental due to Manziel) every time he plays I am constantly amazed when he keeps pulling himself off the turf. Tonight is another case in point, he just went out of the game but man, I’ve been watching this game as a mildly interested Cincy fan looking for trainwreck football between two bad teams and boy, McCown endures some serious physical punishment. Kudos to him for continually getting up, and the fans calls for Manziel. Yeah, the dude has been a trooper and has played surprisingly well given the circumstances. He apparently has a broken collarbone, but I think Pettine is going to drag him out on the field Weekend At Bernies style to make sure there’s no way Manziel plays. McCown, though, really, has taken a huge beating without complaint and has been a model teammate. Nothing but respect for the guy. Unlike our other big free agent signing, Bowe. He thought to himself “I think I might retire. How could I retire and still get paid another 9 million dollars? AHA!” I’m kind of amazed that doesn’t happen more often. Players taking a paycheck and then just literally not putting in the work. I think for these hyper-competitive guys, they just wouldn’t allow themselves to do that. They wouldn’t ever stop competing. There must be some sort of option to sue him to get the money back or something, right? I guess he probably hasn’t technically violated contracts by not showing up to team meetings or anything, he’s just deliberately not putting in any effort. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/738567/49 "2015-12-01T16:39:20Z")
> [@tarrel](#): > > This game should be on ESPN radio I see this commenter is banned, but every MNF game is on ESPN radio. At least where I live. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > [Yep](http://i.imgur.com/CcwGR9q.png). > > Apparently the returner ran out of bounds at the 30 yard line, which actually makes it the third time poor officiating failed to turn over the last significant play of the game. Not to mention the guy who jumped on the Ravens front then lined up offsides. Whatever. Playing for a draft pick would be fine if 1) there was anyone worth drafting and 2) the Browns were any good at drafting. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/738567/50 "2015-12-01T16:45:39Z")
Too late to edit: What is the deal with Dwayne Bowe? He’s a healthy inactive every week. I was thinking last night with all the WR injuries and Bowe apparently being retired, they should have held on to Terelle Pryor. And guess what? [https://twitter.com/MaryKayCabot](https://twitter.com/MaryKayCabot) > [@](#): > > breaking: Terrelle Pryor is signing with #Browns today ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/738567/51 "2015-12-01T22:32:20Z")
[Yep.](http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/12/1/9825602/ravens-browns-ending-block-kick-six-refs-blown-call) It’s funny/suspicious that ESPN didn’t show replays on the kick 6 that showed him going out of bounds there. Also there was a guy lined up in the neutral zone. That shit gets called for the NFL’s favorite teams. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/738567/52 "2015-12-01T22:36:13Z")
Dwayne Bowe can’t play special teams, so I can why he’s been inactive many weeks. I still don’t understand 3 active QBs for a team with nothing to play for. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/738567/53 "2015-12-01T22:51:15Z")
Re: the kick six: I read on Reddit that (a) there’s another angle that makes it less “obvious” he stepped out of bounds, and (b) the Ravens defender got back in position before the snap and before anyone reacted, so no flag. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/738567/54 "2015-12-01T23:15:18Z")
That’s why there was no encroachment called, but he lined up with his hand in the neutral zone after he re-set, which is a neutral zone infraction. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/738567/55 "2015-12-01T23:53:11Z")
If we’re both talking about the same issue, the counter I’m seeing is that that assumes that the line on TV is the actual line, and the league is saying it wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/738567/56 "2015-12-02T03:45:50Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > [Yep.](http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/12/1/9825602/ravens-browns-ending-block-kick-six-refs-blown-call) > > It’s funny/suspicious that ESPN didn’t show replays on the kick 6 that showed him going out of bounds there. Also there was a guy lined up in the neutral zone. > > That shit gets called for the NFL’s favorite teams. Are you serious, or can I chalk this up to temporary upsetness for a overburdened Browns fan? Do you really think that a) It’s clear the refs screwed up; b) it would have made a difference; and c) refs would have made the call for another team? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/738567/57 "2015-12-02T05:54:09Z")
Yeah, I’m serious. NFL officiating is biased in favor of successful and popular teams. No one gives a shit if Cleveland or Jacksonville or Tennessee gets hosed. It doesn’t create controversy like it would against a good team. It doesn’t get that same level of scrutiny. Specifically, A) no, I’m not 100% sure they screwed up. B) Yeah, it would’ve made a difference, it would’ve put them at the long edge of field goal range instead of scoring the game winning touchdown, and C) I already addressed. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/738567/58 "2015-12-02T06:41:13Z")
I must admit I’m skeptical of that. How would one go about proving it? Has anyone ever tried to do so that you know of? I would hypothesize that your theory is as widespread as it is because people are a lot more likely to _perceive_ that the officiating was biased against the losing team than the winning one, so when you have a team that just doesn’t lose many games, a kind of consensus is reached that said team tends to get help from the refs. I concede that there may be some bias at the margins, at least in regard to individual players. Peyton Manning is more likely to draw a Roughing penalty than Brian Hoyer, e.g., and it’s even _possible_ that a particularly dickish WR might draw fewer Pass Interference calls than a Wes Welker or Larry Fitzgerald, from certain refs. Of course, those are judgment calls, unlike someone possibly stepping out of bounds. In any event, I think any expected referee bias of the sort your talking about would be swamped by the referee bias in favor of home teams, which is a real thing. ([Link](http://regressing.deadspin.com/chart-the-impact-of-home-field-advantage-on-officiatin-1469725602?trending_test_two_b&utm_expid=66866090-68.hhyw_lmCRuCTCg0I2RHHtw.2&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F), [link](http://freakonomics.com/2011/12/18/football-freakonomics-how-advantageous-is-home-field-advantage-and-why/).) ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/738567/59 "2015-12-02T14:50:48Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > On the other hand, that’s probably not the best line for a play-by-play announcer to take at the end of the dramatic game.\* “Will Hill scoops up the ball, gets a block, and he’s gonna SCORE! Wow! What a negation of meaning and causality! Truly, a monument to the pointlessness of striving, and the absurdity of the cruel hoax of reason!”\* I would watch that broadcast. In fact, I’m pretty sure I’d prefer it to most actual current announcers going on about Momentum in the National. Football. League. In the version of the world that I like to pretend exists, in France all announcing teams include, along with the play by play and color announcers, an intellectual, offering observations between drags on his or her cigarette and/or wineglass. Not necessarily bleak depressed philosophers, could be discussing the semiotics of team logos, Foucault’s theories applied to coaching styles, or interesting historical facts about the stadium location. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/738567/60 "2015-12-02T14:57:10Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > In the version of the world that I like to pretend exists, in France all announcing teams include, along with the play by play and color announcers, an intellectual, offering observations between drags on his or her cigarette and/or wineglass. Not necessarily bleak depressed philosophers, could be discussing the semiotics of team logos, Foucault’s theories applied to coaching styles, or interesting historical facts about the stadium location. Didn’t we try that with Dennis Miller on Monday Night Football? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/738567.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-12/738567.md?page=4)