# NFL Week 13 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** football-nfl\ **Created:** [November 25, 2025, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/1025123 "2025-11-25T15:42:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2025, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/1025123/1 "2025-11-25T15:42:07Z")
The Texans opened the week with a dominant defensive performance in a victory over the Bills, and the Pats solidified their divisional lead with their 9th straight victory. The Bears continued their hot streak with a narrow win over Pittsburgh, and the Lions survived in OT against the Giants. The Chiefs kept their playoff hopes alive with an OT win over the Colts, and the Ravens moved into first place in the AFC North by defeating the Jets. Shedeur Sanders won his first NFL start as the Browns won in Vegas, and the Jags won another overtime game in Arizona. Dallas overcame a 21-0 deficit to beat the Eagles, and the Rams served notice that they may be the best team in the league by pounding the Bucs on Sunday night. The Lions open Turkey Day by hosting the Pack, followed by the Chiefs visiting Dallas in a need-to-win game for both teams. Baltimore hosts Cincy on Thursday night, while Friday features a game between divisional leaders when the Bears visit Philly. On Sunday, the Colts play at Houston, and Buffalo visits Pittsburgh. Denver travels to Washington on Sunday night, and New England hosts the Giants on Monday night. Here are this week’s lines. All spreads taken from [ESPNBet](https://www.espn.com/nfl/schedule/_/week/13/year/2025/seasontype/2) on Tuesday the 25th at 9:40 am CT. Thursday: Packers @ Lions (-2.5) Chiefs @ Cowboys (+3) Bengals @ Ravens (-7) Friday: Bears @ Eagles (-6.5) Sunday early: 49ers @ Browns (+6) Jaguars @ Titans (+6.5) Texans @ Colts (-4.5) Saints @ Dolphins (-6) Falcons @ Jets (+2.5) Cardinals @ Bucs (-3) Rams @ Panthers (+10) Sunday late: Vikings @ Seahawks (-10.5) Bills @ Steelers (+4) Raiders @ Chargers (-9.5) Sunday night: Broncos @ Commanders (+6.5) Monday night: Giants @ Patriots (-7.5) ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2025, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/1025123/2 "2025-11-27T21:49:07Z")
The Packers put together a complete game, and outlasted the Lions, 31-24. Love threw four TDs, Dontayvion Wicks made a couple of great catches, and Micah Parsons was on fire: 2.5 sacks, three other tackles for losses, and four QB hits. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2025, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/1025123/3 "2025-11-28T01:01:52Z")
The Cowboys beat the last two Super Bowl teams in the last four days. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2025, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/1025123/4 "2025-11-28T04:39:02Z")
My son and I sporadically hate-watched two games today, and darned if the Chiefs and Ravens didn’t both lose. We give thanks! ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2025, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/1025123/5 "2025-11-28T14:07:11Z")
No complaints about that from this quarter. As a fellow midwesterner I have tons of sympathy with the long-suffering Lions fans. 7 times in a row now their coach has tried to go for it on 4th down, and 7 times they have failed. In general I have been in favor of coaches being more bold on 4th down (if you watch old games you’ll see punts **all the time** on 4th and 1-3 at or past midfield), and to a certain extent they have been, but, you know, you _still_ have to convert a solid amount of the time, it’s cold comfort to tell your team and your fans that “It was the better percentage play!” Plus in several of those cases a FG would have been the better play, incl. last night when one would have made it a one-score game with about 12 minutes to go. [A FG is worth 42% of a TD, so AT A MINIMUM you have to be confident you’ll make it at least that often, but even if you do a TD still isn’t a given, so the real break-even point is likely higher than that, and of course also depends on the score at the time. Alas the sole analytical football site I am aware of in Football Outsiders pretty much ceased doing so last decade in favor of catering to fantasy players and gamblers, then disappeared for good 2 years ago.] ---
**Author:** ![3AxisCtrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/ecd19e/32.png) [@3AxisCtrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3AxisCtrl)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2025, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/1025123/6 "2025-11-28T16:12:54Z")
Last year the Chiefs were something like 11-0 in “one score” games (games in which the margin of victory was 8 points or less). This year they are 1-5 in such games. Which helps explain how their point differential (+73) is better than all but 5 of 32 NFL teams, but has produced only a 6-6 won-lost record (better than only 12 teams). ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2025, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/1025123/7 "2025-11-28T16:30:27Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > In general I have been in favor of coaches being more bold on 4th down (if you watch old games you’ll see punts **all the time** on 4th and 1-3 at or past midfield), and to a certain extent they have been When Campbell became the Lions’ head coach, being very aggressive on fourth down was one of his big strategies – and, at that time, it set him apart a little bit from his peers – but this is now his fifth year, and that aggressiveness has become the new normal. I think that they’ve just hit a run of bad luck on 4th down this year; 0-7 on fourth down sounds bad (and is), but it’s a very small sample size. OTOH, it’s also possible that opposing coaches have seen something in the game videos about the Lions’ fourth-down plays, and are, for now, coaching well against it. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2025, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/1025123/8 "2025-11-28T16:47:49Z")
Ravens got destroyed. They haven’t had a game with turnovers like that for almost 20 years. And they were the first team this year to score less than 15 points against the Bengals’ awful defense. I think they’re done. This is what they have in store the rest of the season. > **[Ravens Have Historically Bad Game vs. Bengals](https://www.si.com/nfl/ravens/onsi/news/baltimore-ravens-have-historically-bad-game-bengals)** > > The Baltimore Ravens made undesirable history on Thanksgiving night in their 32-14 loss to the Cincinnati Bengals. Lamar Jackson and Co. broke multiple records > They have to face division rivals, the Pittsburgh Steelers, twice in the remaining five games. They will also go up against the Bengals once again. Their remaining two fixtures are against the New England Patriots, the only team with 10+ wins this season, and the Green Bay Packers. I think they can beat the Bengals in a rematch, maybe, but those other teams? I know they’re 6-6, not 1-11, but that’s a tough slate of opponents and I just don’t think they have it. It’s not a lack of talent (though they have yet more injuries depleting that factor) but I think they aren’t doing well as a team. They’re playing sloppy and Jackson is looking far from the MVP caliber player we expect. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2025, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/1025123/9 "2025-11-28T18:18:45Z")
The fourth-down discussion reminded me of a realization I had last night. I’ve been a fan and student of kicking and punting since I was a teenager. It struck me, fairly recently, just how much higher punting averages are now, compared to just five or ten years ago. Right now, there are five NFL punters who are averaging more than 50 yards per punt; the league average punt is over 47 yards. Fifteen years ago, the league average was just 43 yards per punt. When I first discovered this, I was chalking it up to better training and better technique (likely assisted by video study), similar to what’s probably been helping placekickers become more accurate and able to hit longer field goals. But, last night, I realized that that’s only part of the story. Part of it, I think, is related to how much better kickers have gotten; many teams now trust their kickers to have a pretty good shot at making field goals out to 57-59 yards, which translates to a line-of-scrimmage around the other team’s 40 yard line. The other part, I think, is that coaches are becoming more willing to go for it on fourth down when they’re in the other team’s territory – there’s a realization that, compared to a punt (which has a high chance of being a touchback), they don’t surrender a whole lot of field position by going for it on fourth down when they’re on the 40 or 45. The net of those two changes suggests to me that punters are now less likely to called on to punt when the line of scrimmage is much past midfield – punts from those points aren’t going to be as long, because they’re trying for a high, shorter “drop” punt that can be downed deep in the other team’s territory, or they wind up being touchbacks. If my hypothesis is accurate, it means that punters are largely going to be punting when they can boom it, and get off 50+ yard punts. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2025, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/1025123/10 "2025-11-28T18:32:20Z")
That makes perfect sense. In addition this year they changed the K-ball rules, teams can now prep them from the beginning of the season, leading to more flexible leather & longer kicks. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2025, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/1025123/11 "2025-11-28T18:32:50Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > The net of those two changes suggests to me that punters are now less likely to called on to punt when the line of scrimmage is much past midfield I think you’re exactly right. The coffin corner punt is just about non-existent these days. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2025, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/1025123/12 "2025-11-28T18:38:03Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > The coffin corner punt is just about non-existent these days. The coffin-corner punt – punting the ball towards the sideline, in an attempt to get it to go out of bounds near, but not past, the goal line – largely died off years ago, in favor of the “drop punt,” a technique which was adapted from Australian football, and brought over when Australian football players started to come to the NFL as punters. In a drop punt, the punter drops the ball onto his foot at a different angle from a normal punt, which yields a punt in which the ball tumbles end-over-end, tends to drop back down to the field at a steep angle, and also tends to not bounce much further forward after it hits the ground – this lets the punt coverage team (hopefully) down the ball deep in the opponent’s end. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2025, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/1025123/13 "2025-11-28T18:46:26Z")
Don’t forget that new rules allowing for special K balls have allowed for **all** kickers to kick farther. That has to affect punts also. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2025, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/1025123/14 "2025-11-28T18:52:34Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > That has to affect punts also. It probably does, though the average distance per punt (47.3 yards) has been exactly the same for the past three seasons. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2025, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/1025123/15 "2025-11-28T23:05:58Z")
I did someone boom one 80 yards through the air the other day (net 70). A YTer I follow, if you like analysis of the kicking game: > **[Isaac Punts](https://www.youtube.com/@IsaacPunts/featured)** > > I'm Isaac Punts > Welcome to the Darkside of Football where it's all special teams all the time. > I also give love to other leagues that need it as well. > Thanks for checking me out, if you like the content, consider subscribing, if you don't, hit the... ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2025, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/1025123/16 "2025-11-29T01:01:40Z")
> ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2025, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/1025123/17 "2025-11-29T02:11:26Z")
Apparently, because this happened, an area chain is going to give away free hot dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2025, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/1025123/18 "2025-11-29T04:17:46Z")
The Wiener Circle is not a chain. It’s one hot dog stand that has crude and sarcastic staff and puts funny/topical messages on their marquee. They basically dared him to do it 2 months ago I guess he figured beating the defending champs on Thanksgiving weekend is as good a time as any to earn free hot dogs for the hood. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2025, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/1025123/19 "2025-11-29T06:45:26Z")
This is the second time this season they’ve done it, too. I’d go—they do have great hot dogs, especially this charred ones, but you can image the line for those. The last time was because Caleb threw four touchdowns in a game. They limited it to the first 2000 people. They sell dogs for $6.71, so that’s $13,420 in revenue giveaway; > **[Caleb Williams' four TD passes leads to thousands of free hot dogs from...](https://www.chicagobears.com/news/caleb-williams-four-tds-leads-to-thousands-of-free-hot-dogs-from-iconic-wieners-circle)** > > Bears fans made their way to the infamous Wieners Circle hot dog stand on Chicago's north side Tuesday thanks to the store's owner making good on his social media promise after quarterback Caleb Williams threw four touchdowns passes in Sunday's win... ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2025, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/1025123/20 "2025-11-29T06:57:10Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > It’s one hot dog stand that has crude and sarcastic staff… And they are loved for it! A true Chicago icon. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/1025123.md?page=2)