# NFL Week 13 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 1, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/604734 "2011-12-01T19:14:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/604734/141 "2011-12-05T00:25:24Z")
Ok – Giants down by eight, three minutes and change left. Eli at the helm is good, having to content with some of the worst officiating ever is bad. Still – I bELIeve! ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/604734/142 "2011-12-05T00:26:13Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > Well, don;t forget, that’s rushing TDs for a _quarterback_. True. I’m not a stats geek, so sometimes the records mentioned by the commentators make me go “bwuh?” ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/604734/143 "2011-12-05T00:27:56Z")
Playoffs!? Playoffs! We’re going to the PLAYOFFS!! NFC West Champions, baby! ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/604734/144 "2011-12-05T00:42:38Z")
When it’s all over with, Rodgers is going to be considered the best ever. Calling it. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/604734/145 "2011-12-05T00:45:39Z")
Ah well…can’t wait 'til they meet again in the postseason – perhaps it’ll be called a little more down the line. No contest, then. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/604734/146 "2011-12-05T00:46:25Z")
12-0!!! ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/604734/147 "2011-12-05T00:48:44Z")
I can’t wait to hear Jason Garrett’s explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/604734/148 "2011-12-05T00:55:36Z")
Great game in NY and the fox guys are yammering on and on about Tbow. What does GB have to do to get as much press as him? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/604734/149 "2011-12-05T01:00:30Z")
> [@Jules\_Andre](#): > > Harder doesn’t always mean better, but a lot of times skill can be trumped by desire and confidence. Are you seriously arguing this point? The Texans teams of the last 5 years show this just isn’t the case. Guess what actually made their defense play better? Scheme, healthy players, and good coaching. Guess what Denver’s defense has finally gotten in the last few games? Scheme, healthy players, and good coaching. Also, a different replacement QB (3rd string rookie at that) beats a reasonably good Atlanta team and not a poor 2-9 Vikings team behind a solid run game and good defense, but that doesn’t get much air time. I’m waiting for all the arguments that TJ Yates makes the Houston defense and offense run better than otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/604734/150 "2011-12-05T01:03:49Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > True. I’m not a stats geek, so sometimes the records mentioned by the commentators make me go “bwuh?” The record is 28 by LaDamien Tomlinson. Newton’s within reach of the rookie record–18 by Eric Dickerson. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/604734/151 "2011-12-05T01:04:59Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > I’m waiting for all the arguments that TJ Yates makes the Houston defense and offense run better than otherwise. Is he a Christian? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/604734/152 "2011-12-05T01:07:48Z")
> [@Laggard](#): > > Great game in NY and the fox guys are yammering on and on about Tbow. > > What does GB have to do to get as much press as him? I’m more than happy to let Timmy get all the press while Rodgers continues his excellence. Let the high heavens sing Tebow’s praises while the best QB in the NFL just goes about his business. That last drive for the game winning FG was a piece of art, but I’m fine letting the talking heads chat about the greatness of a guy who finally completed more than 60% of his 15 passes. Great thing to be a Packer fan. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/604734/153 "2011-12-05T01:08:51Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > Ah well…can’t wait 'til they meet again in the postseason – perhaps it’ll be called a little more down the line. No contest, then. I laughed. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/604734/154 "2011-12-05T01:09:45Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I’m more than happy to let Timmy get all the press while Rodgers continues his excellence. Let the high heavens sing Tebow’s praises while the best QB in the NFL just goes about his business. That last drive for the game winning FG was a piece of art, but I’m fine letting the talking heads chat about the greatness of a guy who finally completed more than 60% of his 15 passes. Great thing to be a Packer fan. I knew the Giants left too much time on the clock on their last drive, as impressive as it was. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/604734/155 "2011-12-05T01:14:56Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I’m more than happy to let Timmy get all the press while Rodgers continues his excellence. Let the high heavens sing Tebow’s praises while the best QB in the NFL just goes about his business. That last drive for the game winning FG was a piece of art, but I’m fine letting the talking heads chat about the greatness of a guy who finally completed more than 60% of his 15 passes. Great thing to be a Packer fan. You’re right. I was too amped to appreciate the Packers last drive. Have to go back and watch it again. Frustrating tho. If you were not a football fan you’d think that Tbow was the leagues best Qb. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/604734/156 "2011-12-05T01:22:27Z")
> [@Laggard](#): > > You’re right. I was too amped to appreciate the Packers last drive. Have to go back and watch it again. > > Frustrating tho. If you were not a football fan you’d think that Tbow was the leagues best Qb. I’m fine with it. I think Rodgers is very very good when he is underappreciated, and I’m more than happy to see Tebow grab the headlines while Rodgers puts up a season for the record books. I wish Tebow continued success, and will be more than happy to put my faith in Rodgers. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/604734/157 "2011-12-05T01:24:25Z")
You know what’s weird? Scott Fujita is old and slow as shit, but the Cleveland defense goes from pretty decent to crap when he’s not there. It’s not his actual play that’s making the difference I don’t think. Maybe he has Tebow-like inspirational ability ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/604734/158 "2011-12-05T01:28:16Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > The record is 28 by LaDamien Tomlinson. > > Newton’s within reach of the rookie record–18 by Eric Dickerson. Yea, I REALLY don’t think Cam Newton is going to be able to reach L.T.'s level, especially given that L.T. is…well, L.T. Is it common for a quarterback to be this close to a running back’s TD record? > [@Hamlet](#): > > That last drive for the game winning FG was a piece of art, but I’m fine letting the talking heads chat about the greatness of a guy who finally completed more than 60% of his 15 passes. Great thing to be a Packer fan. Indeed, on all counts. I can’t help thinking that Rodgers just spent so much time under Favre’s shadow that when he was finally freed, he just went balls-to-the-wall. ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/604734/159 "2011-12-05T01:48:51Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Are you seriously arguing this point? If I’ve made anything clear here, it’s that there isn’t any reason to argue the point at all. Either point. Neither side is willing to accept the points of the other. It’s the same as any political hot button debate. > [@](#): > > The Texans teams of the last 5 years show this just isn’t the case. Guess what actually made their defense play better? Scheme, healthy players, and good coaching. What. The. Fuck. Are you kidding right now? > [@](#): > > Also, a different replacement QB (3rd string rookie at that) beats a reasonably good Atlanta team and not a poor 2-9 Vikings team behind a solid run game and good defense, but that doesn’t get much air time. I’m waiting for all the arguments that TJ Yates makes the Houston defense and offense run better than otherwise. Wow, you weren’t kidding! If this is representative of the types of arguments used against Tebow, I can see while there’s still a debate. This is about as moronic and braindead as any football post on this forum. If you think you can compare TJ Yates to Tim Tebow, in a debate such as this, you have no hope. Your comparisons here are superficial and contrived. Seriously people, the world is not black and white. Just because one thing is true does not mean that all other things are false. Tim Tebow absolutely does inspire his team, on both sides of the ball, to play harder (for many reasons). I can’t say how big this impact is, how meaningful, but it’s there. It’s happening. That doesn’t mean that players haven’t also gotten healthier, etc., and maybe that’s much more important. Hell, I’m sure it is, but to simply dismiss one part of it because you want another part to be more true is ignorance. Swallow your manufactured outrage and enjoy the storyline while it’s being told. It’s interesting if nothing else, and you likely won’t be seeing it much longer because the intangibles that Tebow brings, whatever their actual contribution, don’t tend to last very long. I don’t think this is sustainable. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/604734/160 "2011-12-05T01:58:43Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I think Rodgers is very very good when he is underappreciated The notion that the current fuss over Tebow means that Rodgers is under-appreciated seems like quite a reach. Here (for example) we have Yahoo Sports eagerly reporting that [a couple of reasonably good QBs say he’s having the best season ever](http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Brady-and-Warner-agree-Aaron-Rodgers-2011-seas;_ylt=A2KLOzHEINxO.jsAizJNbK5_;_ylu=X3oDMTBmMHFub2M1BHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2FjNA--?urn=nfl-wp13098). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/604734.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/604734.md?page=9)