# NFL Week 13 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 29, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/642499 "2012-11-29T18:52:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/642499/61 "2012-12-03T17:46:29Z")
Gerald McCoy. Atkins has help; McCoy is playing with a bunch of injury replacements. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/642499/62 "2012-12-03T18:03:52Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > …Is there a better DT in the league than Geno Atkins this season? Atkins, with 2 picks, 2 pass defensed, and 3 forced fumbles, is having a great year. But what do we mean when we say, DT? Are we limiting the discussion to 4-3 DT’s? Certainly, 3-4 NTs have a different job description and gap assignment than most 4-3 DTs. From what I’ve seen—you would probably know this much more than me—Atkins plays primarily a [3-technique](http://www.cincyjungle.com/2012/5/29/3049723/pff-bengals-geno-atkins-is-the-prototypical-three-technique). If we’re opening the discussion to guys that play some 3-technique, then my vote is for J.J. Watt. Admittedly, Watt plays more 5-technique than 3-technique (and is listed as a 3-4 DE, to boot), per articles like [this](http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/41572/hot-watt-looking-to-break-mold-of-3-4-ends), but he does a play a significant amount of 3. I’d like to see D-linemen, in this day and age, identified more by their gap assignments, than by their ostensible positions. Because with the increased frequency of formations like the “[amoeba](http://smartfootball.com/gameplanning/attacking-psycho-fronts-and-other-blitz-heavy-defensive-looks)”, psycho, or the 11 angry men, never mind all of the ordinary stunting that goes on in the game, it gets difficult for me at least to say that this guy’s a DT or DE. But Atkins is certainly a great player this year, and you guys look like you’ve a shot for the last WC slot. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/642499/63 "2012-12-03T18:06:27Z")
So Vick is out for the rest of the season now. What happens to him going forward? I don’t believe for a minute he’s changed since he left prison. I don’t see him as being a good fit in a backup role. He’ll probably end up with the Jets ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/642499/64 "2012-12-03T18:12:09Z")
What do you mean by “changed since he left prison”? Presumably he’s no longer killing dogs. He was doing alright as Kolb’s backup when the Eagles first signed him, too. I image he’ll get signed by one of the teams that thinks it’s just a quarterback away and wants to roll the dice. Arizona, Minnesota, New Jersey Jets, etc. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/642499/65 "2012-12-03T18:21:25Z")
One of the first things Vick did after leaving prison was to throw a party with his gangster buddies which resulted in a shooting. [http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2010-06-27/shooting-victim-michael-vicks-party-allegedly-hit-him-cake](http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2010-06-27/shooting-victim-michael-vicks-party-allegedly-hit-him-cake) I’d vomit if the Cardinals even considered him. Thankfully they won’t, he’d be killed behind their O-line. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/642499/66 "2012-12-03T20:06:46Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Atkins, with 2 picks, 2 pass defensed, and 3 forced fumbles, is having a great year. But what do we mean when we say, DT? Are we limiting the discussion to 4-3 DT’s? Certainly, 3-4 NTs have a different job description and gap assignment than most 4-3 DTs. > > From what I’ve seen—you would probably know this much more than me—Atkins plays primarily a [3-technique](http://www.cincyjungle.com/2012/5/29/3049723/pff-bengals-geno-atkins-is-the-prototypical-three-technique). If we’re opening the discussion to guys that play some 3-technique, then my vote is for J.J. Watt. Admittedly, Watt plays more 5-technique than 3-technique (and is listed as a 3-4 DE, to boot), per articles like [this](http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/41572/hot-watt-looking-to-break-mold-of-3-4-ends), but he does a play a significant amount of 3. > > I’d like to see D-linemen, in this day and age, identified more by their gap assignments, than by their ostensible positions. Because with the increased frequency of formations like the “[amoeba](http://smartfootball.com/gameplanning/attacking-psycho-fronts-and-other-blitz-heavy-defensive-looks)”, psycho, or the 11 angry men, never mind all of the ordinary stunting that goes on in the game, it gets difficult for me at least to say that this guy’s a DT or DE. But Atkins is certainly a great player this year, and you guys look like you’ve a shot for the last WC slot. You’re probably right about which metrics to use to compare them and also what type of system they play in. IIRC on top of what you mentioned Atkins also has 9 sacks as well. He’s been an amazing player. Another impact player the Bengals unearthed is Vontaze Burfict, formerly projected to be a first round pick that tumbled out of the draft and is playing kick ass as an undrafted FA. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/642499/67 "2012-12-03T22:27:00Z")
Josh Gordon is leading rookie receivers in yardage by a good margin and I think touchdowns too. Which is especially good since he had a shortened offseason and is considered a very raw prospect. And he’s doing it on a shitty offense. I’m becoming a big fan. Edit: Cancel, missed Cecil Shorts. Still, pretty good, especially since Gordon is one of those raw/upside guys. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/642499/68 "2012-12-03T22:45:03Z")
Woops, Shorts is a second year player, so cancel that cancel. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/642499/69 "2012-12-03T23:41:42Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > NYG @ WAS tonight, 8:30pm on ESPN. Giants are 2½-point favorites. > > I for one am scared shitless of RG3. The Skins are hungry, and this is guaranteed to be an ugly game. If the G-Men win, our only worry left in the division will be the Cowboys, who are far less worrisome than the momentous Redskins. Yet I can’t shake the feeling that this isn’t going to turn out well for us. I predict the usual fair-to-good first half for New York, going into halftime tied or a field goal up. But I see collapse coming in the 2nd half. > > Someone please assuage my fears. > > **Go Giants.** If it helps, our secondary is really really terrible. Is Nicks playing? If he is he and Cruz should be able to beat them easily. Cruz could probably take them single handed. I’m not joking by much. Should be an interesting game. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/642499/70 "2012-12-04T00:36:45Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Josh Gordon is leading rookie receivers in yardage by a good margin and I think touchdowns too. Which is especially good since he had a shortened offseason and is considered a very raw prospect. And he’s doing it on a shitty offense. I’m becoming a big fan. I’ve only seen a bit of him, but he reminds me Torrey Smith. One of those guys who excels going deep, and coaches hope will develop into an all around threat. I’m not enamoured with his sub .500 catch rate or his negative DVOA, but as you said, he’s raw. Seeing as how the Browns used a draft pick in the 35-45 range for him, for your sake I hope he continues to develop. But he’s clearly way ahead of the Michael Floyd/Brian Quick/AJ Jenkins curve. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/642499/71 "2012-12-04T02:10:07Z")
Wow. RG3 magic. Even his mistakes score touchdowns. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/642499/72 "2012-12-04T02:12:49Z")
“The magic of RG3!” Gimme a fricking break, Gruden – fumbles are _mistakes_, not magic! ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/642499/73 "2012-12-04T02:28:02Z")
Gruden has a stroke over every player who makes any play at all. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/642499/74 "2012-12-04T03:10:49Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > “The magic of RG3!” > > Gimme a fricking break, Gruden – fumbles are _mistakes_, not magic! God wanted them to score ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/642499/75 "2012-12-04T03:31:24Z")
The skins have no fucking defense. None. Horrible pass coverage and Bradshaw is running straight up their ass. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/642499/76 "2012-12-04T03:42:59Z")
Damn, our secondary really is awful. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/642499/77 "2012-12-04T03:55:52Z")
I was also thinking our receivers need to drop more passes. 50% isn’t enough. Morris is on a mission now after than fumble too. Wasn’t much he could do about that one though, it was punchd right out of his arms while he was upside down. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/642499/78 "2012-12-04T03:58:34Z")
This one could be tight… ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/642499/79 "2012-12-04T04:10:03Z")
Jaysus this is tense. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/642499/80 "2012-12-04T04:10:44Z")
What the Hell? Darnell Docket spit on the face of a teammate? While I don’t agree with letting the Jets score and trying to force overtime if the offense gets the ball back, if coach tells you to do something, you do it. [Darnell Dockett and Kerry Rhodes](http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/03/source-dockett-spat-in-rhodes-face/#comments) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/642499.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/642499.md?page=5)