# NFL Week 13 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 27, 2013, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/674870 "2013-11-27T00:46:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/674870/61 "2013-12-02T19:37:51Z")
Was there ever a question that Tomlin was on the field? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/674870/62 "2013-12-02T19:49:44Z")
> [@For You](#): > > [this angle clearly shows Tomlin’s right foot come down inbounds](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF9yzOLcX40) I don’t think anyone ever questioned this fact. The issue is the seriousness of the infraction, whether or not it was intentional, and what the punishment should be. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/674870/63 "2013-12-02T22:19:28Z")
The Panthers defense is currently ranked #1 (the Seahawks could overtake them if they stifle the Saints tonight.) That may not guarantee them anything, but in 4 out of the last 5 games they’ve held their opponents scoreless in the second half. They’ve continued to play well even without their sack leader, Charles Johnson, the last two weeks. They look to be completely healthy heading into the Saints game next weekend. Still, if anyone can expose their secondary, which has benefited greatly from their front 7 all season, it’s Drew Brees. Brady was able to move the ball pretty well on them. Giddy up! ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/674870/64 "2013-12-03T03:55:23Z")
These roughing the passer calls are out of control. At least they’re even (in this game…) ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/674870/65 "2013-12-03T05:52:46Z")
That was one of the weirdest interceptions I can recall ever seeing. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/674870/66 "2013-12-03T14:16:53Z")
Until Gruden is gone from Monday night football I cannot watch it anymore. Every play is the greatest and ever player is “something special.” His mancrush on Wilson was especially over the top last night. I expected to see him run onto the field at some point and try to molest the Seahawks QB. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/674870/67 "2013-12-03T16:58:53Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I don’t think anyone ever questioned this fact. > > The issue is the seriousness of the infraction, whether or not it was intentional, and what the punishment should be. I don’t think they can ever determine if it was intentional, unless Tomlin came right out and says it was, which he won’t. What it will come down to is how much of a message the league wants to send, intentional or not, you simply cannot interfere with the play in any way. Since it is the head coach there is a higher level of scrutiny, rightfully so, I think. I am seeing a six figure fine for Tomlin and the team. But I don’t see any draft picks. Now just imagine if the Ravens had lost that game… ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/674870/68 "2013-12-03T18:00:27Z")
I don’t think intent matters a bit here. The league has adopted that policy for a number of different rules - players are equally responsible for positive drug tests whether they’re the result of a mislabeled supplement (see Pat and Kevin Williams) or intentional ingestion; inadvertent helmet-helmet contact and blows to a QB’s head are penalized the same way as intentional ones. Somebody either does or doesn’t interfere with a play on the field. If he does, it doesn’t matter why - the play was changed regardless. It seems like everyone expects a fine. I’d like to see a suspension as well, but I doubt that’s coming. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/674870/69 "2013-12-03T18:05:38Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > But I don’t see any draft picks. Now just imagine if the Ravens had lost that game… Now just imagine if they did have to forfeit a draft pick… to the Ravens. A lot of heads around here… _poof_. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/674870/70 "2013-12-03T18:28:13Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > I don’t think they can ever determine if it was intentional, unless Tomlin came right out and says it was, which he won’t. What it will come down to is how much of a message the league wants to send, intentional or not, you simply cannot interfere with the play in any way. I agree with you. For the purposes of punishment, his intention is pretty much irrelevant. I think that intentionality is more relevant to how individual people will feel about the issue. Those who think it was intentional will be less likely to cut him slack in the court of public opinion. I also think that intentionality can, in some measure at least, be inferred from the nature of the actions themselves. I simply find it hard to believe that a person can be standing right on the sideline and watching a play unfold on the screen without having a sense of where he is in relation to the action. And that smug grin he had on his face after the fact doesn’t exactly encourage me to give him the benefit of the doubt. I should add, too, that i would feel exactly the same as a Ravens fan if Harbaugh had done the same thing. I know that some Steeler fans will probably find that hard to believe, but i really do hate this sort of gamesmanship no matter who the offender is. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/674870/71 "2013-12-03T23:57:17Z")
As a footballl ref that works the sideline, I can say head coaches suck at getting the fuck off the field. I’ve had to dodge them, I’ve run into them, tripped over them, and thrown flags on them. The three feet between the sideline and where they’re supposed to stay is for me, so I can run at full speed and still look at the players actually playing the game. I’m shocked that Tomlin wasn’t flagged, and I hope the league hits him witth a proverbial sledghammer. The NFL allows exactly 29 people on the field during a play, and no coach is part of that number. In other news, why are all of my 49ers friends acting like _we_ lost to the Seahawks last night? Even with a Sainnts win, we still would have been a long shot to win the devision, and we get our actual shot at avenging the earlier loss this Sunday. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/674870/72 "2013-12-04T03:29:38Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > In other news, why are all of my 49ers friends acting like _we_ lost to the Seahawks last night? One week clairvoyance. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/674870/73 "2013-12-04T03:43:28Z")
The Seahawks came off a couple of practice games against the Falcons and the Vikings, stepped up and broke the Saints. They seem to have hit their stride at this point, after six weeks of sloppy play starting with the loss in Indy. The Niners are a bit uneven at this point, they do stand a chance against Seattle, but the game will have a mist of desperation clinging to it like a classic Bay Area fog. A loss on Sunday could put the Niners in a really bad position, possibly fighting Arizona for a playoff spot in week 17. Meanwhile, Seattle is ready to close out the division and reach for the big seed. Last time I looked, SF was at -1.5 for the game, way too close for their comfort. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/674870/74 "2013-12-04T03:46:20Z")
I know this sounds kinda nuts, but I’m still not sold on the Hawks as being a dominant team. For instance, I think the Bengals defense would give them fits. ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/674870/75 "2013-12-04T09:32:17Z")
Three players are tied for the most game-winning drives (4th quarter or OT offensive score without losing the lead) - Tom Brady, Russell Wilson, and … Geno Smith! Peyton Manning is on pace to break both the single-season passing yards and touchdowns records. Is anyone even talking about it? Nick Foles followed up the greatest statistical game by any QB in the history of the NFL with the highest passer rating in a single calendar month by any QB ever. He leads the NFL in QB rating, yards per attempt, and TD%. People are skeptical because he doesn’t pass the eye test (none of his skills pop off the screen), and he’ll come down to earth, but anyone calling him a game manager is a lunatic. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/674870/76 "2013-12-04T11:33:59Z")
Foles has been ridiculous, especially that lack of INT’ ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/674870/77 "2013-12-04T16:06:00Z")
Tomlin fined $100,000. That sounds about right. I’m a little surprised at least one game suspension wasn’t included but regardless it sends a loud and clear message. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/674870/78 "2013-12-04T16:19:51Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Foles has been ridiculous, especially that lack of INT’ He was lucky as hell to have one called back on a phantom defensive holding call this week, but as someone who owns him in four fantasy leagues\*, all I can say is hell yes he is. If it wasn’t for that completely ineffective (80 yards!) performance against Dallas he might be getting MVP votes right now. \*I’m only in five leagues, so you can safely say I bought in. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/674870/79 "2013-12-04T17:55:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > He was lucky as hell to have one called back on a phantom defensive holding call this week, but as someone who owns him in four fantasy leagues\*, all I can say is hell yes he is. If it wasn’t for that completely ineffective (80 yards!) performance against Dallas he might be getting MVP votes right now. > > \*I’m only in five leagues, so you can safely say I bought in. Lol, I own him in two of three leagues as well. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/674870/80 "2013-12-04T18:09:29Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > Tomlin fined $100,000. That sounds about right. I’m a little surprised at least one game suspension wasn’t included but regardless it sends a loud and clear message. The league left the question of draft picks open, though. WTF, Goodell? Decide on a punishment and mete it out, don’t to it a half step (maybe, or maybe not) at a time. Is the league waiting to see what the public reaction is before they make their decision? If so, that’s a pretty awful precedent to set. On the other hand, it would allow the league to do absolutely anything it wants to Dan Snyder and Jerry Jones, so I guess there’s a silver lining there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/674870.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-13/674870.md?page=5)