# NFL Week 14 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 8, 2011, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-14/605465 "2011-12-08T03:30:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-14/605465/181 "2011-12-13T22:30:06Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > 1. However, winning that game puts us ahead of 6 or 7 4-win teams, eliminating our chances to get one of the top quarterbacks in the draft. If it’s any consolation, I like this year’s QB class. Luck, Griffin, and Barkley could all go in the top 10, and there’s some nice depth in Jones, Tannehill, and some high upside fliers like Wilson, Foles, or Cousins. You could also find a backup/project QB in Moore, Weeden, Brantley, or Keenum. I like this years QB class a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-14/605465/182 "2011-12-13T22:33:34Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > You do realize that his batting the ball away is completely irrelevant. That’s not a tipped ball scenario. By your logic a DB could run over a WR so long as he tips the ball away in the process. That not how the rules work, regardless of what you think would be more fun. Once again, I don’t care about the legalistic argument. It is irrelevant to my point. What I do think is that in a case where the DB-to-WR contact is completely incidental to the play, and the WR’s ability to catch the ball is not impacted, that no PI should be called. My logic does not mean that a DB could run all over the WR, because that would actually impact the WR’s ability to compete for the pass, which I agree should be a PI. That didn’t happen here. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-14/605465/183 "2011-12-13T22:46:26Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > If it’s any consolation, I like this year’s QB class. Luck, Griffin, and Barkley could all go in the top 10, and there’s some nice depth in Jones, Tannehill, and some high upside fliers like Wilson, Foles, or Cousins. You could also find a backup/project QB in Moore, Weeden, Brantley, or Keenum. I like this years QB class a lot. I’d give my left dick for Luck. I think football fans want to undervalue what the QB does because we like to think of it as the ultimate team sport and having a star QB be a completely dominant factor in team quality doesn’t sit right with us, but it’s so absurdly important to have a good one that teams should be willing to take huge gambles for the chance. At least teams that chronically suck anyway. I’d give up the three first rounders for Luck. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-14/605465/184 "2011-12-13T23:00:27Z")
> [@Kiros](#): > > It started after the '03 playoffs, when Bill Polian and the Colts lobbied (we’ll be nice and avoid “whined”… doh!) the league for an emphasis on DB/receiver contact. > > It kicked up again after '08 or so for… not sure really? Because they saw how much money they could make with an offense like Brady/Moss/Welker/etc running wild? The weirdest and saddest part of that is that the game that caused the rule changes (or enforcement changes) was a great game! The Colts receivers were beaten literally bloody - yet they toughed through it. Great stuff. The idea that this is the game that indicates a need for a rule change is bizarre because that was one of the greatest games of the modern era. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-14/605465/185 "2011-12-13T23:46:54Z")
> [@Laggard](#): > > Yeah, don’t know. IMHO there is a concerted effort to make this even more of a pass first league. Big plays are popular with (casual) fans and the more big plays, the more people watching. > > Purists may love ball control and 80 yard drives that last ten minutes but a lot of people find it boring. > > Just my opinion. I may be wrong. I think purists, if you will, enjoy all aspects of the game. I enjoy an 80-yard drive and I enjoy an 80-yard bomb. I also enjoy an 80-yard punt return. I also enjoy strong defense and wild offense and almost everything in between. To me whats important is that the game is that the rules are fairly implemented and that they are not capricious. ---
**Author:** ![Ennui](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ennui/32/3396_2.png) [@Ennui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ennui)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-14/605465/186 "2011-12-14T18:31:19Z")
Well, Browns president Mike Holmgren just held a presser to address the handling of Colt McCoy’s concussion. He believes it was handled properly but admits (finally) that no concussion test was administered until the next day. It seems the medical staff was busy tending to other players and therefore didn’t witness the hit Colt took. When tending to Colt he complained only about pain in his left hand and made no mention of the helmet to helmet hit. Likewise no one else on the sideline informed the medical staff to look at anything other than Colt’s hand so they cleared him to return without even considering the possibility of a concussion. The league had a medical observer in the booth but since the Browns medical staff seemed to be addressing the issue the observer didn’t call down to the sideline. So the coaching staff didn’t inform the doctors about the nature of the potential injury when accepting their clearing McCoy to return to the field. First point, it took the organization five days to decide what happened. They left their head coach dancing around questions and doing a poor imitation of Bill Clinton’s definition of “is” routine while refusing to confirm that no concussion test was administered on the sideline. I don’t think that reflects very well on the organization. Second, there wasn’t any attempt to sidestep the appropriate protocols but the outcome was the same, a severely concussed player (he still hasn’t been cleared to return to practice) was sent back out on the field and as a Browns fan I’m sincerely grateful that Colt _only_ threw a game ending interception and didn’t receive a career ending injury. I don’t know if the team should or will be fined for this but it’s clear that the league needs to examine and enhance their procedures for dealing head injuries. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-14/605465/187 "2011-12-14T20:33:28Z")
I still don’t understand how anyone can look at the hit and think it was dirty. Harrison hits him within one footfall in a manner that is legal to do to a runner. The fact that McCoy got rid of the ball before the hit is immaterial - Harrison couldn’t have pulled up in time anyway. Just [look at it](http://www.steelersdepot.com/2011/12/james-harrison-colt-mccoy-helmet-to-helmet-video-picture-fine/). His right leg is down before the ball is even over McCoy’s shoulder. McCoy’s left leg is moving forward when the throw is delivered and he’s hit just after it touches the turf. So he’s hit within one step by both players. Even in slow motion, I’m timing it at two seconds, tops, from first throwing motion to first contact. Sucks he got hurt. But it’s legal. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-14/605465/188 "2011-12-14T21:02:31Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > I still don’t understand how anyone can look at the hit and think it was dirty. Are you a Steeler fan? > [@Chessic Sense](#): > > Harrison hits him within one footfall in a manner that is legal to do to a runner. The fact that McCoy got rid of the ball before the hit is immaterial - Harrison couldn’t have pulled up in time anyway. Just [look at it](http://www.steelersdepot.com/2011/12/james-harrison-colt-mccoy-helmet-to-helmet-video-picture-fine/). His right leg is down before the ball is even over McCoy’s shoulder. McCoy’s left leg is moving forward when the throw is delivered and he’s hit just after it touches the turf. So he’s hit within one step by both players. Even in slow motion, I’m timing it at two seconds, tops, from first throwing motion to first contact. It wasn’t the hit itself. It’s that he led with his helmet and hit McCoy in the helmet with it. And it’s his 5th time being fined over the last 3 years for hits. > [@Chessic Sense](#): > > Sucks he got hurt. But it’s legal. It is illegal. The refs called it, the NFL suspended him for it, and a vast majority of non-Steeler fans seem to agree, it was an illegal hit. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-14/605465/189 "2011-12-14T21:10:58Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Sucks he got hurt. But it’s legal. It might be legal, but he aimed high in the first place. It was the kind of hit meant to take players out of games. There’s absolutely no doubt that he didn’t even think about going lower on the body. That wouldn’t have been such a bad idea, on any type of runner in this situation. And isn’t that the reason for the suspension? He goes for head shots. Legal or not, there are cases (and this is one of them) when he didn’t even have to. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-14/605465/190 "2011-12-14T21:31:00Z")
The discussion about whether the hit was legal seems to me to show that it’s a pretty badly written rule, with hits to the head swapping between legal and illegal as McCoy tucks and untucks the ball. Also, it also seems to show that the basis for the rule is not really player safety. It’s not like helmet-to-helmet is less harmful for RBs than QBs. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-14/605465/191 "2011-12-14T21:43:00Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > I still don’t understand how anyone can look at the hit and think it was dirty. l. I don’t understand how anyone could look at it and think it was legal. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-14/605465/192 "2011-12-14T21:53:05Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I’d give my left dick for Luck. You have two? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-14/605465/193 "2011-12-14T21:53:10Z")
> [@Laggard](#): > > I don’t understand how anyone could look at it and think it was legal. Never underestimate a Steeler fan’s abilities. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-14/605465/194 "2011-12-14T22:35:21Z")
Everything looks worse in slow motion, [but still](http://i44.tinypic.com/jptwsh.gif). He doesn’t begin his lunge until he saw Colt get rid of the ball - he was looking right at him. But even ignoring the timing issue… it wasn’t like he threw himself at a player and then the player pulled back and made it become accidental helmet to helmet contact. He didn’t begin his lunge until he was right in McCoy’s face, he deliberately braced his body to become rigid, especially his neck and head, and then he deliberately launched his helmet into McCoy’s helmet. There can be no mistaking that he deliberately wanted to deliver his full body force to the head of another player. This is a no no in the NFL even if the quarterback is a runner, or even if it’s not a quarterback. He could’ve just kept moving forward and wrapped him up or even gave him a hard, good, clean hit. But instead he deliberately took every step you could take to cause a brain injury. … Just like he always does. It’s crazy that people can defend this shit. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-14/605465/195 "2011-12-14T23:37:15Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > … Just like he always does. > > **It’s crazy that people can defend this shit.** I agree. Its not comprehensible. He seems to really lash out on Browns players, too. But I heard Jerome (Fat Fuck) Bettis doing exactly that on the SVP show during one of my commutes today. The same, tired excuse of “How can you expect someone to adjust their body at the drop of a hat when they are going 100mph, etc”. Um, don’t launch yourself at their heads in the first place, duh. And especially don’t fucking practically brag about it after multiple fines/suspensions as if you don’t give a shit. If he keeps this shit up, the league needs to toss him out for good. Is there a precedent for that? I’d LOVE it if Harrison were the first to garner such a ban. Steelers fans would howl in protest and multiple angels would get their wings. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-14/605465/196 "2011-12-14T23:39:16Z")
I see his point in other cases where a defender throws himself at a receiver to break up a pass. He aims at putting his shoulder on the chest of the receiver, but the receiver adjusts in a way that they have helmet to helmet contact. That’s not really the defender’s fault. But that’s not at all what happened here. Harrison deliberately aimed for the head with his head - no doubt about it - no accident. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-14/605465.md?page=9)