# NFL Week 15 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 18, 2009, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/521691 "2009-12-18T00:21:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/521691/101 "2009-12-22T16:10:53Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > You want holding, watch the last play of the Steeler Packers game where Hartwig grabs himself a big ole handful of Johnny Jolly’s jersey, delaying him from getting in Rothlisberger’s face. > > [The video. The holding starts at about 15 and gets worse for a few seconds](http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009122006/2009/REG15/packers@steelers#tab:watch). > > Clearly holding. Whether or not it was enough to stop Jolly from pressuring Ben is certainly debatable, but, then again, you don’t see a whole lot of Packer fans here bitching about it. I’m beginning to think that Jolly gets held on every single play, but the NFL won’t do anything about the clearly biased refs not calling it. 🙂 At about 15 whats? At 15 seconds into that video, there’s no way that’s holding by Hartwig. Did you mean someone else? That video does have the three-quarter shot of the holding of Harrison that I’m talking about. It’s the second play, starting around 30 seconds in. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/521691/102 "2009-12-22T16:26:41Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > At about 15 whats? At 15 seconds into that video, there’s no way that’s holding by Hartwig. Did you mean someone else? Weird. That’s the entire video (you can find the last play of the game on that video though at 4:12), not the one I had seen there. The one I was talking about was a video of just the last play of the game. Go to the Analyze tab above the video, click it. Then, right below that, click on the Play by Play. Scroll down to the last play and click on the watch highlight, and you’ll see the last play. At 15 sec., you can watch the center, Hartwig, grab himself a piece of Jolly’s jersey, hold onto it while Jolly crosses over, and continue to hold it, turning Jolly to the side and not allowing him at Ben. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/521691/103 "2009-12-22T17:11:21Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Weird. That’s the entire video (you can find the last play of the game on that video though at 4:12), not the one I had seen there. The one I was talking about was a video of just the last play of the game. > > Go to the Analyze tab above the video, click it. Then, right below that, click on the Play by Play. Scroll down to the last play and click on the watch highlight, and you’ll see the last play. At 15 sec., you can watch the center, Hartwig, grab himself a piece of Jolly’s jersey, hold onto it while Jolly crosses over, and continue to hold it, turning Jolly to the side and not allowing him at Ben. Uh, if that’s your best counter example, you’re not doing well. Jolly turned sideways because he had to get between Hartwig and Trai Essex, the right guard who had nobody else to block. For all the shit you’ve given me all season about the arm around the neck holding of Harrison, to have it featured on the Fox broadcast on a play that allowed the Packers to score, I’d have hoped you’d have something more substantial to say. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/521691/104 "2009-12-22T18:54:51Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Uh, if that’s your best counter example, you’re not doing well. Jolly turned sideways because he had to get between Hartwig and Trai Essex, the right guard who had nobody else to block. I’ll give your Steeler colored glassed opinion what it’s worth. > [@Hentor](#): > > For all the shit you’ve given me all season about the arm around the neck holding of Harrison, to have it featured on the Fox broadcast on a play that allowed the Packers to score, I’d have hoped you’d have something more substantial to say. And you STILL don’t get the whole Harrison/Holding thing. Color me shocked. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/521691/105 "2009-12-22T19:01:12Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I’ll give your Steeler colored glassed opinion what it’s worth. That’s fine. If you want to assume that Trai Essex is just going to stand there and do nothing instead of helping Hartwig block, that would be consistent with my impression of your football acumen. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/521691/106 "2009-12-22T19:09:36Z")
Looks like the Steelers signed Joey Galloway. Interesting. Where does he fit on game days for them? How does he get ahead of Ward, Holmes and Wallace at this point? Is someone hurt? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/521691/107 "2009-12-22T19:15:47Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Looks like the Steelers signed Joey Galloway. Interesting. Where does he fit on game days for them? How does he get ahead of Ward, Holmes and Wallace at this point? Is someone hurt? Looks like he’s been brought in to replace Sweed who is out with a non-football related injury. I have no idea what that might be. I’d guess maybe his pride is hurt, or perhaps it’s been discovered that he is congenitally unable to catch footballs. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/521691/108 "2009-12-22T20:52:11Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > That’s fine. If you want to assume that Trai Essex is just going to stand there and do nothing instead of helping Hartwig block, that would be consistent with my impression of your football acumen. Funny how I didn’t even come close to saying anything like that. I’ll add building strawmen to the list of Steeler fan attributes. If you watch it, it’s pretty clear Harwig has a handful of Jolly’s jersey when they’re at about the 22 yard line, and, if you pause it at 16/17 sec., you can see Hartwig’s white gloved hand covering up part of Jolly’s number because he still was holding him by the jersey. But it’s all kinda beside the point, which, once again, has eluded you. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/521691/109 "2009-12-22T21:30:15Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Looks like the Steelers signed Joey Galloway. Interesting. Where does he fit on game days for them? How does he get ahead of Ward, Holmes and Wallace at this point? Is someone hurt? Trying to fit in with Federal diversity guidelines, I guess. “You need more old people!” ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/521691/110 "2009-12-22T23:34:43Z")
Moving to a different topic… I’ve noticed in the last few years that Giants’ coach Tom Coughlin’s facial expression is always like he can’t believe what’s happening in front of him. Winning or losing, it’s always a mix of incredulous and confused. Last night I saw a similar expression on the Redskins’ Jim Zorn. It was on display even more so two weeks ago against the Saints, but that was understandable given the way the game played out. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/521691/111 "2009-12-23T02:55:25Z")
Huh. Coughlin’s usual expression is that of a severely constipated man. Zorn’s usual expression is the same as [Emo Cat’s](http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/128371513645948735EmoCatNeedsLo.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/521691/112 "2009-12-23T03:21:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Zorn’s usual expression is the same as [Emo Cat’s](http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/128371513645948735EmoCatNeedsLo.jpg). Holy fuck that made me laugh. Hahaha. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/521691/113 "2009-12-23T03:27:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Huh. Coughlin’s usual expression is that of a severely constipated man. Zorn’s usual expression is the same as [Emo Cat’s](http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/128371513645948735EmoCatNeedsLo.jpg). > [@HongKongFooey](#): > > Holy fuck that made me laugh. Hahaha. [I rest](http://thechinstrap.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/mad-tom-coughlin1.jpg) [my case.](http://nothingfancy1.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/zorn.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/521691/114 "2009-12-23T07:00:22Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > [I rest](http://thechinstrap.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/mad-tom-coughlin1.jpg) [my case.](http://nothingfancy1.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/zorn.jpg) I don’t know. Zorn looks like he wants to lead a “hip-hip-hooray” chant or something. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/521691.md?page=5)