# NFL Week 15 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 12, 2014, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/707002 "2014-12-12T06:33:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/707002/61 "2014-12-16T04:07:36Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Getting defensive? Of course not, I live in Chicago. The only defense is when the Bills visit. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/707002/62 "2014-12-16T04:23:33Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > But they’re finally building a honest to God NFL football team. They have their defense in line, they have a couple playmakers on offense, and they seem to be well coached. They need help on the O line, but they really need a good QB. Orton is just an average NFL QB guy off the street, and they’re still 8-6 with a pretty tough schedule. I really like how they built their team, and I think they’ll be in playoff contention more often than not in the upcoming years. I’d like to believe this. But the Bills just seem to reach a plateau and then stop. What are the realistic hopes that next season will be better? Manuel and Orton haven’t improved on where we were with Edwards or Fitzpatrick. Jackson’s 33 years old, Chandler’s 29, Spiller’s 27 and injury prone. This isn’t a young team that’s improving - it’s a team that’s probably already peaked. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/707002/63 "2014-12-16T04:53:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’d like to believe this. But the Bills just seem to reach a plateau and then stop. Yeah, but you have a guy named Boobie on your team. That’s gotta count for something, right? > [@Little Nemo](#): > > What are the realistic hopes that next season will be better? Manuel and Orton haven’t improved on where we were with Edwards or Fitzpatrick. Jackson’s 33 years old, Chandler’s 29, Spiller’s 27 and injury prone. This isn’t a young team that’s improving - it’s a team that’s probably already peaked. The Bills have one of the youngest teams (10th to be precise) in the NFL. They’ve just beaten one of the best teams in the NFL, mostly thanks to their defense, and they’re 8-6 with a tough schedule. I think Sammy Watkins could be a star, Robert Woods could be a solid #2, and RB’s as good (and younger) as Fred Jackson is can be found. Their biggest problem is the QB position, where they need to find a guy they can build around. And it ain’t EJ Manuel. Their next two drafts will be very important, but I like their chances to compete. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/707002/64 "2014-12-16T04:55:23Z")
Who were these guys in the Saints colors tonight? Looked like the same group of guys we sent to Pittsburgh. Definitely not the group that stunk up the Dome against Carolina. 6-8 and 1st place in the NFC South. Yikes. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/707002/65 "2014-12-16T05:30:09Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > It’s kinda hard to be considered a stud when you’re not even the best back on your own team. I’ll also note that he’s currently the 37th best RB in the NFL according to Pro Football Focus. > > But I think we can both agree that Gio needs someone like Hill to maximize his skills, and playing the lowly Browns certainly helps. I’ll also point out that Eddie Lacy, Le’Veon Bell, and Andre Ellington, three guys the Bengals passed on to draft Gio, have more yards rushed than him. Lowly Browns? A couple games ago they were every bit as good as the competition in YOUR division. And still pretty much currently ARE at 7-7. I finally concede about Gio though. While I do still consider him a stud, that comes with provisions…like possibly admitting that the Bengals overpaid for a younger, shiftier, better Darren Sproles, and had to draft a true all around back in Jeremy Hill in the following draft. Bernard is a nice weapon to have, but the way the Bengals continued to use him with Hill on the bench earlier in the season was insane. Gio will NEVER be your inside guy. That’s what Hill is for. The real head-scratcher to me is Hue Jackson never lining Gio up in the slot or being more creative with him. The guy’s dying to get open in space on something other than a pitch-out or a screen pass. He’s not being utilized to his STUDLY gifts. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/707002/66 "2014-12-16T12:19:19Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Why? The game situation dictated an onside kick. Your kickoff guy and your hands team practice onside kicks. Nobody practices an onside punt. I should have been more clear… yes, I was talking about an onside punt and what’s to practice? I was thinking of a 10-15 yard punt that gave the punting team a chance to congregate and camp under it. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/707002/67 "2014-12-16T13:56:25Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > I should have been more clear… yes, I was talking about an onside punt and what’s to practice? > > I was thinking of a 10-15 yard punt that gave the punting team a chance to congregate and camp under it. The receiving team will just call a fair catch. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/707002/68 "2014-12-16T14:50:45Z")
Right - it’s the same reason kickers bounce onside kicks, as fair catches can be called on kickoffs too. In the CFL, where there’s no fair catch rule, onside kicks are chipped high instead. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/707002/69 "2014-12-16T16:39:23Z")
Wait, how can you have an “onside punt”? Once the punt is in the air, the punting team has surrendered possession, once the punting team touched it, it becomes a dead-ball spot, receiving team’s possession. Is there some obscure rule I have never heard of before that would allow an onside punt? ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/707002/70 "2014-12-16T16:42:29Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > I should have been more clear… yes, I was talking about an onside punt and what’s to practice? > > I was thinking of a 10-15 yard punt that gave the punting team a chance to congregate and camp under it. 1. Fair catch 2. Punters do not practice kicking the ball 10-15 yards. Their mechanics, developed over years of practice, are all geared toward kicking the ball as far as they can. It’s not as easy a thing as you suppose to overcome that muscle memory and suddenly do it differently on cue. (Imagine trying to shoot a jumpshot with a junior-sized ball at a hoop set at only six feet high. In theory, it should be easier. But it’s not unless you practice that way.) Even if they could, the rest of the team does not practice it. How high will it be? Do we all go for the ball, or just some while the others block? do we try kicking it right at a defender and hope he bobbles it? Teams do in fact practice normal onside kicks from the tee. Coaches draw up schemes for it. They don’t practice punted onside kicks. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/707002/71 "2014-12-16T16:46:52Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Wait, how can you have an “onside punt”? Once the punt is in the air, the punting team has surrendered possession, once the punting team touched it, it becomes a dead-ball spot, receiving team’s possession. Is there some obscure rule I have never heard of before that would allow an onside punt? We’re talking about the end of the Green Bay game. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/707002/72 "2014-12-16T17:11:24Z")
eschereal, if it is a [free kick](http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/safety) then there can be an onside punt. > [@](#): > > In addition to a kickoff, the other free kick is a kick after a safety (safety kick). A punt may be used (a punt may not be used on a kickoff). > On a safety kick, the team scored upon puts ball in play by a punt, dropkick, or placekick without tee. No score can be made on a free kick following a safety, even if a series of penalties places team in position. (A field goal can be scored only on a play from scrimmage or a free kick after a fair catch.) ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/707002/73 "2014-12-16T18:28:54Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s one thing to lose a game when the opposing team is on fire. But it’s got to be really embarrassing for Rodgers to have lost to Kyle Orton. While the Buffalo defense and special teams did a great job, the Buffalo offense gave their usual average performance. Orton is Kryptonite to Aaron Rodgers. Orton was the QB of the Chiefs in 2011 when they ruined the Packers hope for a 16-0 season in December. Similar game too, the defense of the Chiefs beat the Packers more than Orton’s play as QB. Way back in 2008 when Orton was the Bears starting QB he beat Rodgers in a close game at Soldier Field towards the end of the season despite a poor statistical performance. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/707002/74 "2014-12-16T18:46:01Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > eschereal, if it is a [free kick](http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/safety) then there can be an onside punt. Yeah, I kind of spaced that the safety free kick was comparable to a kick-off, being after a score. Trying an onside kick from the 20 is extremely risky, though. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/707002/75 "2014-12-16T21:35:00Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Yeah, but you have a guy named Boobie on your team. That’s gotta count for something, right? Best nickname since “Booger” McFarland. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/707002/76 "2014-12-16T22:10:49Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > What’s the record for quickest time for a player to not live up to the ungodly hype? The hype didn’t come from Browns fans, for the most part. I think it’s manufactured hype by ESPN and the rest of the media for the most part. A concerted effort by all. Most Browns fans are pretty unsure about him and while a small vocal minority is thrilled with him, most of us have been pretty meh. It’s only because Hoyer has absolutely shit the bed for over a month that a changed had to be made. It’s risky starting a rookie when the playoffs are still on the line, but after last week, when the defense put up one of the best defensive performances of the decade (the numbers may not show it as much, but watch the game, they didn’t falter at all until they were exhausted by the offense’s complete inability to do anything) and Hoyer couldn’t do even the most minimal good thing to win it, it was time for a change. And I’m not saying that as someone hyping Manziel - if Manziel was hurt at that point, or otherwise unfit to start, I’d have wanted to give Connor Shaw a try. Hoyer had simply become an anchor. The team put up an atrocious performance this week. The defense was just giving up yards at will to the Bengals before Manziel even took the field. I don’t know if it’s the psychological deflation of having such an incredible game turn into a huge letdown, or if they felt like the team was giving up on the season by moving away from Hoyer (the reports are that Hoyer had a lot of support in the locker room despite the bad play), or because they don’t like Manziel, but the whole team quit. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/707002/77 "2014-12-16T22:25:17Z")
San Diego Chargers still have a chance for the playoffs just like last year when they had to not only win their last four (4) regular season games to be 8-8. Baltimore, Buffalo and Miami had to lose their last game … which they did. Now the Chargers at 8-6 have the 49er’s to beat Saturday in San Francisco and their last game will be with the Kansas City for the wild card slots now held by Pittsburg and Baltimore. Another great finish for San Diego, right? Sure they’ve done it before and an even better twist would be if they get to play the Bengals in Cinncy in the playoff’s and win again like they did last year. Go Chargers 😃 ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/707002/78 "2014-12-16T22:43:58Z")
The Chargers do have some chances, but these constant injuries sure aren’t helping. Now Keenan Allen is out as well. It happens to all teams, but it’s too bad when it does. Anyway, it’s plausible for the Chargers to get in, although they do need a few things to go their way. A reasonable finish for the AFC would be: San Diego beats SF and KC Baltimore beats HOU and CLE Pittsburgh beats KC and CIN Cincinnati loses to DEN and PIT That would make Pittsburgh the AFCN champs and Baltimore & SD the wild cards. None of those game results would be too surprising, though obviously it’s not too likely that they’ll all go this way. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/707002/79 "2014-12-17T01:38:57Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > It’s only because Hoyer has absolutely shit the bed for over a month that a changed had to be made. You just a couple of weeks ago reeled off a list of reasons why the Browns were collapsing, admitted that those reasons had nothing to do with Hoyer, and still said that Manziel should start. Well, he’s started. Unlike others, I have no particular dislike for Manziel. I think he’s perfectly capable of becoming an adequate (and maybe even a very good) NFL quarterback. But the reason the Browns are diving down in the standings has absolutely nothing to do with the starting quarterback. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/707002/80 "2014-12-17T04:25:37Z")
I’m used to the ‘clinch’ [scenarios](http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/154359/2014-nfl-week-16-playoff-scenarios) being a bit complicated with two weeks to go, but this is by far the most interesting one I’ve seen. > [@ESPN](#): > > Dallas clinches a playoff spot with: > > 1. DAL win + GB loss or tie + DET loss or tie as long as both don’t tie [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/707002.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/707002.md?page=5)