# NFL Week 17 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 28, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-17/645393 "2012-12-28T16:47:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-17/645393/81 "2012-12-31T02:45:10Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > As **Enginerd** said, Burfict is an absolute STEAL as a UDFA. The guy has been playing extremely well, especially for a rookie, and I look for him to take over from Maualuga at MLB next season. He’s a great story, too, the way he was projected as a first round pick, tumbled out of the draft due to weight, personal fouls issues and a poor pro day and wrote letters to every NFL team to give him a chance, which the Bengals did. > > And so the Bengals will play Houston in the first round again. I am a lot more confident in their chances against the Texans this go around than I was last season. Interesting. I really wanted the Bears to get him to bolster a aging LB corps. I’m pretty sure they didn’t even try due to their insistence on high character/try hard guys. Still, Burfict fit the mold of a Cover 2 LB perfectly so long as those speed issues were purely conditioning issues. Honestly, it’s probably not that shocking that a guy who needs help to stay motivated and in shape benefits from the 24/7 nature of the NFL. We’ll see what happens when he get paid, but at least for now he’ll probably keep on improving so long as this offseason doesn’t lead to him ballooning up and getting into trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-17/645393/82 "2012-12-31T02:46:36Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > No, they Packers were penalized. But, it was also reviewed, which was correct because the ref said the buzz to review came before the red flag was thrown. So what was the net result? ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-17/645393/83 "2012-12-31T02:51:20Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > No, they Packers were penalized. But, it was also reviewed, which was correct because the ref said the buzz to review came before the red flag was thrown. … and the review reversed the initial call of a GB fumble into the endzone that would have been a touchback for the Vikes. Result, GB touch and 15 yard penalty enforced on the kickoff. Still, after Schwartz how could McCarthy not know? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-17/645393/84 "2012-12-31T03:03:17Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Interesting. I really wanted the Bears to get him to bolster a aging LB corps. I’m pretty sure they didn’t even try due to their insistence on high character/try hard guys. Still, Burfict fit the mold of a Cover 2 LB perfectly so long as those speed issues were purely conditioning issues. Honestly, it’s probably not that shocking that a guy who needs help to stay motivated and in shape benefits from the 24/7 nature of the NFL. We’ll see what happens when he get paid, but at least for now he’ll probably keep on improving so long as this offseason doesn’t lead to him ballooning up and getting into trouble. The guy is totally legit. He plays like his hair is on fire. He’s all over the place. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-17/645393/85 "2012-12-31T03:04:26Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > … and the review reversed the initial call of a GB fumble into the endzone that would have been a touchback for the Vikes. Result, GB touch and 15 yard penalty enforced on the kickoff. > > Still, after Schwartz how could McCarthy not know? Which was an amazingly lucky result. Otherwise it’s either 1st and 10 from the 16 or a touchback and Minnesota gets the ball on the 35. No matter how that call went, unless it was down at the goal line, that call was being reviewed automatically. How hard is it for coaches to realize that all turnovers and all touchdowns are automatically reviewed? ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-17/645393/86 "2012-12-31T03:04:32Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > He should be MVP because he was the only offensive weapon (well, half the season with Percy Harvin) on a bad team that had no one else to carry them. Is it fair to give someone the MVP when they were arguably not even the MVP of their own team? Harvin was every bit as important to that team when he was healthy. > [@Omniscient](#): > > Plus I think his injury comeback is more impressive than Peyton’s which also could be a tiebreaker. I don’t see how this is a defensible position. Other people have come back from injuries similar to Peterson’s. Nobody has ever come back from Peyton’s. Manning couldn’t look to the right during his recovery. HE COULD NOT TURN HIS HEAD. He had to look in the mirror to know if his throwing motion was right. There was serious question that Peyton could not throw the ball at a bare minimum NFL level **during this season.** People honestly thought that Manning would be forced to retire. If you want to vote for Peterson, no issues from me. I’m torn between the two from moment to moment, myself. But it’s absurd to say Peterson should get more credit for his path back from injury. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-17/645393/87 "2012-12-31T03:16:04Z")
If Peterson doesn’t win the MVP then I think we should forget anybody other than a QB ever winning it in the future. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-17/645393/88 "2012-12-31T03:20:06Z")
Is either one of these teams trying to win this game? ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-17/645393/89 "2012-12-31T03:21:09Z")
Just both defenses. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-17/645393/90 "2012-12-31T03:31:37Z")
> [@Jules\_Andre](#): > > Is it fair to give someone the MVP when they were arguably not even the MVP of their own team? Harvin was every bit as important to that team when he was healthy. > I don’t see how this is a defensible position. Other people have come back from injuries similar to Peterson’s. Nobody has ever come back from Peyton’s. Manning couldn’t look to the right during his recovery. HE COULD NOT TURN HIS HEAD. He had to look in the mirror to know if his throwing motion was right. There was serious question that Peyton could not throw the ball at a bare minimum NFL level **during this season.** People honestly thought that Manning would be forced to retire. > > If you want to vote for Peterson, no issues from me. I’m torn between the two from moment to moment, myself. But it’s absurd to say Peterson should get more credit for his path back from injury. True, but as Senor Beef posted earlier, AP is more valuable to his team than Manning is to the Broncos, especially once Percy Harvin, their only other legit offensive threat, was done for the year several games ago. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-17/645393/91 "2012-12-31T03:31:55Z")
And Alfred Morris. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-17/645393/92 "2012-12-31T03:47:41Z")
> [@Jules\_Andre](#): > > I don’t see how this is a defensible position. Other people have come back from injuries similar to Peterson’s. Nobody has ever come back from Peyton’s. Manning couldn’t look to the right during his recovery. HE COULD NOT TURN HIS HEAD. He had to look in the mirror to know if his throwing motion was right. There was serious question that Peyton could not throw the ball at a bare minimum NFL level **during this season.** People honestly thought that Manning would be forced to retire. > > If you want to vote for Peterson, no issues from me. I’m torn between the two from moment to moment, myself. But it’s absurd to say Peterson should get more credit for his path back from injury. Manning took 18+ months off. Peterson took 6. Peterson runs and gets hit on every play. Everyone said Manning would be fine after surgery so long as his arm strength returned, that took about 12 months longer than projected. Doesn’t anyone remember that there was real debate of Manning would start opening day of 2011? ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-17/645393/93 "2012-12-31T03:59:48Z")
Was that a hammer toss or the most flagrant facemask ever? Ah, the punter, figures. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-17/645393/94 "2012-12-31T04:03:42Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > Was that a hammer toss or the most flagrant facemask ever? Ah, the punter, figures. Punters get game balls for that kind of play. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-17/645393/95 "2012-12-31T04:15:21Z")
Some of next week’s games already scheduled: Sat: Bengals @ Texans 1:30 Viks @ Pack 5:00 Sun: Colts @ Ravens 10:00 Sad for Houston, in the end they coughed up the top seed along with the bye. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-17/645393/96 "2012-12-31T04:24:30Z")
OMG playoffs here we come! ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-17/645393/97 "2012-12-31T04:24:35Z")
Tony Romo always chokes at clutch time I feel bad for him man ): ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-17/645393/98 "2012-12-31T05:23:41Z")
I’m a lifelong Washington fan, and even I almost feel a little sorry for Tony Romo tonight. Still glad he threw the pick, though. ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-17/645393/99 "2012-12-31T05:37:10Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Everyone said Manning would be fine after surgery so long as his arm strength returned, that took about 12 months longer than projected. This isn’t correct. There was concern that he would never play again. In fact, there was question he was retiring (remember Rob Lowe’s tweets and the ensuing chatter?). Not everyone said Manning would be fine. This all ignores that not even everyone could agree that Manning’s arm strength **would** return. All of this was in serious question up to the start of the season, and then the question became whether his arm strength would return at all. His wobbly dead-duck passes were widely reported and analyzed in his first two games. > [@](#): > > Doesn’t anyone remember that there was real debate of Manning would start opening day of 2011? This is actually true. There was hope Manning would start opening day of 2011. But… do **you** remember what happened next? He had his [del]third[/del] fourth neck surgery a day or two before the start of the season. That surgery was the spinal fusion surgery that put his career in jeopardy, by the way. So in reality, he had 12 months off from the most critical surgery of the four he had on his neck. Surgeries which made it so that he had to teach himself how to throw a football in the mirror because he couldn’t even turn his head to see his arm. I do have to correct myself in that other players have had similar operations, but never a QB. People were seriously concerned that sacks would cause whiplash would could cause paralysis. I think people have forgotten that’s a potential (if remote) issue. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-17/645393/100 "2012-12-31T05:58:46Z")
I think you’re exhibiting a little selective memory. [http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/09/inside-peyton-mannings-surgery/](http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/09/inside-peyton-mannings-surgery/) [http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/story/2012-03-08/doctors-upbeat-on-manning-health/53424974/1](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/story/2012-03-08/doctors-upbeat-on-manning-health/53424974/1) Anyone with real knowledge of the surgery knew that Peyton’s neck wasn’t going to put his career in jeopardy. Also, from the USA Today article. > [@](#): > > In 1998, then-Florida State quarterback Chris Weinke had spinal fusion surgery. He returned in 1999 to lead Florida State to an undefeated national championship season. He won the Heisman Trophy in 2000 and played in the NFL from 2001-2007. This is a fairly common out-patient procedure. The issue was that Peyton needed the 4th surgery to clean up some bone spurs that may or may not have been contributing to the arm weakness. In any case the question never was if Manning would regain his strength but when, nerves are slow to regenerate, and people thought his career would end not because of the neck issue but because of age, rust and desire. People have blown the Peyton neck thing out of proportion because “hey, it’s a neck! He was almost paralyzed.” It’s basically ignorance. Peyton’s biggest hurdle was that he was away from football for 18 months, was on a new team and his arm was rusty due to the inability to workout. That’s not to say that it’s not a hard thing to overcome and worthy of commendation, but it doesn’t compare to a catastrophic knee injury for a running back. Frankly Drew Brees’ shoulder injury way back when was a more impressive comeback than Peyton’s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-17/645393.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-17/645393.md?page=6)