# NFL Week 2 Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 19, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2-discussion/554292 "2010-09-19T15:39:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2-discussion/554292/81 "2010-09-21T21:13:24Z")
> [@Phlint](#): > > > [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > > > Pittsburgh is playing great defense and is getting wins off of that, penalties and playing lesser teams so far. > > I don’t think it’s fair to say that Pittsburgh has been playing lesser teams so far. Both the Titans and the Falcons are 1-1, and they both clobbered their non-Steelers opponent (though you could easily argue that those opponents were lesser teams). Chris Johnson had been tearing defenses apart, and many people were claiming Matt Ryan was reaching the ranks of top level QB, until they played the Steelers. I don’t think either team is a pushover. > > That being said, the Steelers’ offense is pretty pathetic right now, but it has a decent chance of turning around when Roethlisberger is back. Eh, you’re probably right. I often cannot help my anti-Steelers bias. Its an inherited genetic condition I have as a Bengals fan. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2-discussion/554292/82 "2010-09-21T22:01:23Z")
> [@Phlint](#): > > I don’t think it’s fair to say that Pittsburgh has been playing lesser teams so far. Both the Titans and the Falcons are 1-1, and they both clobbered their non-Steelers opponent (though you could easily argue that those opponents were lesser teams). Chris Johnson had been tearing defenses apart, and many people were claiming Matt Ryan was reaching the ranks of top level QB, until they played the Steelers. I don’t think either team is a pushover. The Steelers defense has looked good so far, but c’mon. The Titans gave them 7, thats SEVEN, turnovers. There’s no way I can call a team that gives 7 turnovers anything but a “lesser” team. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2-discussion/554292/83 "2010-09-21T22:19:28Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > > [@Phlint](#): > > > > I don’t think it’s fair to say that Pittsburgh has been playing lesser teams so far. Both the Titans and the Falcons are 1-1, and they both clobbered their non-Steelers opponent (though you could easily argue that those opponents were lesser teams). Chris Johnson had been tearing defenses apart, and many people were claiming Matt Ryan was reaching the ranks of top level QB, until they played the Steelers. I don’t think either team is a pushover. > > The Steelers defense has looked good so far, but c’mon. The Titans gave them 7, thats SEVEN, turnovers. There’s no way I can call a team that gives 7 turnovers anything but a “lesser” team. If that’s your measure, then the Vikings are a lesser team too? I guess the Steelers have all “lesser” teams for the rest of the year probably. If you’ve seen the game, it wasn’t like the turnovers were mistakes by the titans. They were forced fumbles and interceptions. The big mistake by the titans was falling for the reverse on the opening kickoff, but even if you take that away, the Steelers would have won by 1 point. Pouncey messed up the snap like 4 times but the steelers got them all back. Also, there’s a reason that the steelers only scored one TD (that kickoff return.) The titans defense was off the charts. Also, as a friend pointed out, the steelers are 1 and 7 in tennessee. They were also the underdogs on the Vegas line. The steelers had the 3rd and 4th string QB’s playing, lost their starting WR1 and RB2 in the offseason, and a rookie center. Their starting NT got injured during the game as well. By all accounts, the Steelers will be the underdogs until week 6, even moreso since Dixon needs surgery on his knee now. For the next game against Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh is giving 1-2.5 points. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2-discussion/554292/84 "2010-09-21T22:25:40Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > lost their starting WR1 What’s wrong with Ward? Or are you referring to them ditching Santonio Holmes? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2-discussion/554292/85 "2010-09-21T22:27:56Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > If that’s your measure, then the Vikings are a lesser team too? So far, yes. That 0-2 record is kinda an indication. > [@Superhal](#): > > I guess the Steelers have all “lesser” teams for the rest of the year probably. Why would you think that? > [@Superhal](#): > > If you’ve seen the game, it wasn’t like the turnovers were mistakes by the titans. Turnovers are mistakes. Certainly a defense can lend a helping hand, even make great plays, which I’m sure the Steelers did. But turnovers are mistakes, and they make a team a lesser team. Especially SEVEN of them. The Titans fucked up, the Steelers took full advantage, and won. But don’t pretend the Titans brought their A game when they turn the ball over 7 times. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2-discussion/554292/86 "2010-09-21T22:52:58Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > But don’t pretend the Titans brought their A game when they turn the ball over 7 times. It’s a big difference when a team gives up the ball X times vs the other team taking it away X times. The vikings (particularly Farve) gave it up. The Titans had them forced. Case in point: the first CJ fumble. If Timmons hadn’t hit him when he was already down, he wouldn’t have fumbled. Case #2: The Polamalu interception: he faked the blitz and then dropped back into coverage. And then, let’s not ignore the sacks (Pitt had 4 in the game.) If they get a sack that turns 2 and 10 into 3 and 17 and forces a punt (a type of turnover,) is that a hallmark of a “lesser team” as well, if the steelers get more sacks than the other team? In that case, the Steelers have played only lesser teams since 1990 when Kevin Greene was a LB there. You make it sound like the titans rolled over and let the steelers stomp on them, but it wasn’t like that. The titans put up a good fight and their defense was just as good, if not better, yardage-wise, than the steelers. Also, let’s not change the argument here. The titans were not overmatched, they were the favorites or equals in every category with the possible exception of special teams. To put it another way: if they had played a different team, would they still have given up that many turnovers? No. The steelers created those turnovers, not that the titans gave them up. In other words: giving up turnovers is not always a sign of a bad offense. In this case, it was the sign of a great defense. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2-discussion/554292/87 "2010-09-21T23:12:20Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > It’s a big difference when a team gives up the ball X times vs the other team taking it away X times. The vikings (particularly Farve) gave it up. The Titans had them forced. Of course. The failure to secure the ball or not throw into coverage weren’t mistakes by the Titans. Gotcha. > [@Superhal](#): > > You make it sound like the titans rolled over and let the steelers stomp on them, but it wasn’t like that. That’s YOUR interpretation of what I said, not mine. Personally, I chalk it up to the hyper-defensiveness and humorlessness of Steeler fans in general, but that’s neither here nor there. > [@Superhal](#): > > The titans put up a good fight and their defense was just as good, if not better, yardage-wise, than the steelers. Yes the Titans defense did play well. They kept the team in the game when the offense turned the ball over seven times. However, no team that turns the ball over seven times is playing their A game. > [@Superhal](#): > > Also, let’s not change the argument here. The titans were not overmatched, they were the favorites or equals in every category with the possible exception of special teams. To put it another way: if they had played a different team, would they still have given up that many turnovers? No. The steelers created those turnovers, not that the titans gave them up. Of course. Whatever was I thinking calling them mistakes. The poor Titans had no choice but to give up 7 turnovers. > [@Superhal](#): > > In other words: giving up turnovers is not always a sign of a bad offense. In this case, it was the sign of a great defense. I’ll give you one. Two maybe. On the outside, maybe three turnovers. An offense playing a good game can, in extremely rare circumstances, give up the ball three times. But I’ll still go out on a limb and say: “Yes, giving up 7 turnovers in one game is always a huge fucking sign of a bad offense.” You are, of course, free to disagree. Maybe Collins and Young had great games too. But I’m guessing a majority of people … no scratch that … a majority of non-Steeler fans, would agree with me. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2-discussion/554292/88 "2010-09-22T00:03:13Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > Case in point: the first CJ fumble. If Timmons hadn’t hit him **when he was already down** , he wouldn’t have fumbled. Well then that’s not really a fumble then, is it? 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2-discussion/554292.md?page=4)