# NFL Week 2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 12, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2/668660 "2013-09-12T14:24:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2/668660/121 "2013-09-18T23:25:47Z")
Who could tell? ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2/668660/122 "2013-09-18T23:26:27Z")
Injured, I mean. I’m sure his feelings are constantly hurt playing for the Browns. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2/668660/123 "2013-09-18T23:35:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > He was a good NFL QB last season by definition. I’ll bite. What does it take to be a “good NFL QB” to you? As I pointed out, he was sub-average in passer efficiency rating, had a sub 55% completion percentage, and led his team to a straight losing streak that cost them a shot at the playoffs. > [@RNATB](#): > > Remember, he played 80% of the season without the best guard tandem in the league (only one of whom is back for the start of this season and is playing hobbled), and he’s never had a decent tight end or slot receiver - which is where the high completion percentage throws go. Those are excuses why he wasn’t a good NFL quarterback, not proof that he was. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2/668660/124 "2013-09-18T23:47:16Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Giovanni Bernard is awesome. He’s got the same body as Ray Rice had when he came into the league. Gio will pack on a few pounds and get stronger. Did you see his two TD’s? The one where he plowed into the endzone showed he’s got some power, and oh my that 27 yard catch and run was sheer speed in the open field. He’s very dynamic. I saw them, and there’s probably 20 backs in the NFL who could do either of those. On the 7 yard run, he was untouched for 5 yards and had Eifert pushing him those last two. On the 27 yard catch, his speed was impressive (and the angles taken by the Steelers were just awful), but he was wide open. I’m not saying he’s incompetent, but he won’t get to 1,000 yards this year, and I don’t think he’ll ever be more than a shared time guy. We will see who is right about him, but I’m not seeing him getting any All Pro nods anytime soon. > [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > And no worries about Dalton. Even if Green goes down, we still have two excellent TE’s and an amalgam of young talent at WR. We’d still be better off in that position group than say, the Patriots are right now. Definitely. I love me some Sanu, and Gresham/Eifert are a couple of nice weapons. But he’s still Andy Dalton. Which to me means he’ll max out as a Trent Dilfer-esque “if the defense carries us I can get us to the Super Bowl by not fucking everything up, but never ask me to carry a team because I can’t” quarterback. > [@FGIE](#): > > I sure hope the Bengals don’t play flat. This is a huge game, a yardstick for where they are. They’ve got a lot of winnable games going forward and I want them to play as well as they can in this one against a playoff team. You have the Steelers/Browns/and Ravens in your division. I think you’ll be OK. > [@FGIE](#): > > Also, since DE Robert Geathers went on the IR today, you may get to see your man-crush Margus Hunt in action! How great would that be if he discount double-checked on Rodger’s body? > > Hunt hasn’t been active in either of the first two games. I’m excited to see him play this week. He’s completely raw, with little to no coaching and experience, and will make a ton of mistakes as he learns the game, but I love his upside. Should be fun to watch. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2/668660/125 "2013-09-19T01:47:25Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I saw them, and there’s probably 20 backs in the NFL who could do either of those. On the 7 yard run, he was untouched for 5 yards and had Eifert pushing him those last two. On the 27 yard catch, his speed was impressive (and the angles taken by the Steelers were just awful), but he was wide open. > > I’m not saying he’s incompetent, but he won’t get to 1,000 yards this year, and I don’t think he’ll ever be more than a shared time guy. We will see who is right about him, but I’m not seeing him getting any All Pro nods anytime soon. I’m not putting him in the Pro Bowl either, but his hands and speed are undeniable. Those weren’t just bad angles by the Steelers DB’s, he flat out burned them to the outside. And you’re right…he won’t get 1,000 yards this season, but they don’t need him to. BJGE is a perfectly capable back himself and there’s no reason for the Bengals to wear Bernard out by trying to make him a feature back, at least for now. More importantly what Gio will provide is a reliable playmaker for Dalton to check down to when teams blanket Green. With the emergence of Eifert in the same role, along with fellow first rounder Gresham on the field at the same time, PLUS Marvin Jones and Sanu, I think the Bengals are going to be seriously hard to stop in the passing game if Jay Gruden plays his cards right. Too many weapons. That, and the fact that the Bengals have some serious talent along the offensive line as well. Dalton has been sacked once in two games.I don’t understand why you hate on Dalton. I’m not putting him up there with Peyton Manning, but he’s at least a middle of the pack QB, which you can win with if you have what the Bengals now have: great weapons and a strong defense. [/QUOTE] > [@Hamlet](#): > > Definitely. I love me some Sanu, and Gresham/Eifert are a couple of nice weapons. But he’s still Andy Dalton. Which to me means he’ll max out as a Trent Dilfer-esque “if the defense carries us I can get us to the Super Bowl by not fucking everything up, but never ask me to carry a team because I can’t” quarterback. I have to admit being flabbergasted that you even know whom Sanu is. Nobody nationally pays attention to the Bengals, and that’s just fine by me. Fly under the radar, I say. Quietly become better and better. Surprise people. Don’t be flashy. I disagree with your judgement of Dalton, however. He’s better than that. Just look at his numbers! Yes, they aren’t spectacular compared to the best QB’s in the league, but they are reasonably good and again, he doesn’t need to be Dan Marino to have success in this league with the offense surrounding him. He’s more of a gamer than you give him credit for. His collegiate career indicates that. He’s just a winner. Not the strongest arm, not the tallest guy…but yet…he wins games. I like that in him and I can confidently say I think he can win a Superbowl. Seriously. He’s got the desire, despite the “physical limitations” so many pundits assail him with. Heck, the pundits were sucking his dick after the Bears game given that he actually had a really good game if you look at the responsibility for all the INT’s. Dalton is better than you give him credit for. ALL NFL QB’s are only as good as their oline. IIRC, Rodgers got pummeled the last time these two teams met because your oline was in a shambles of injury…we had one guy (Antwan Odom?) get FIVE sacks himself. We all know this. The inferior QB with he better protection usually wins the game. [/QUOTE] > [@Hamlet](#): > > You have the Steelers/Browns/and Ravens in your division. I think you’ll be OK. I’m excited to see him play this week. He’s completely raw, with little to no coaching and experience, and will make a ton of mistakes as he learns the game, but I love his upside. Should be fun to watch. How interesting that once formerly good teams fall to the wayside after one measly season. The Ravens aren’t as bad as they look to me, they just have a lot of moving parts right now…although I don’t think Flacco is a better QB than Dalton other than that he can throw it farther and he had a better RB and defense last season than we did. Times have changed. This is the dawn of the orange and black! Receive your communion, sip the sacramental wine and step the fuck out of the way or you’ll get run over! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2/668660/126 "2013-09-19T03:45:16Z")
Bernard’s floor is Ray Rice. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2/668660/127 "2013-09-19T03:55:49Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Bernard’s floor is Ray Rice. Well, that’s not a ridiculous statement or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2/668660/128 "2013-09-19T12:48:20Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I disagree with your judgement of Dalton, however. I think we actually agree about Dalton. He is, as you say, a middle of the road NFL QB. He’s not great, he’s not bad, he’s … Trent Dilfer. Surround him with weapons (including a flat out stud of a WR), give him protection, and he won’t lose you games. He’s … fine. I think where we differ is in the value of having that kind of QB. I credit the Bengals for drafting him in the second round. They didn’t do as so many other teams do, reach into the first round because they’re desperate for a QB. Sanchez, Freeman, Tebow. Locker, Gabbert. Ponder, Wheedon, and Tannehill (and I would include Flacco and Cutler in there), were all overdrafted. First round picks for average (and below average) QB’s. The Bengals were smart, waited, and got a fine NFL QB in the second round. Kudos to them. But neither is Dalton special. I think, if you took any of those QB’s I listed (except Tebow, he flat out sucks) and put them in Dalton’s position, they would be about the same, maybe a bit worse, maybe a bit better. But they could still win a Super Bowl for you. > [@FGIE](#): > > ALL NFL QB’s are only as good as their oline. IIRC, Rodgers got pummeled the last time these two teams met because your oline was in a shambles of injury…we had one guy (Antwan Odom?) get FIVE sacks himself. We all know this. Yes, the O line matters, but along with my point about Dalton not being special comes the idea that some QB’s are special. Rodgers has been one of the most sacked QB’s in the game the last few years, yet he’s the best QB in the NFL. Brady, Manning, Brees, and whomever else you consider elite, can succeed in the NFL without having all the amenities that Dalton has. They can win with crappy O lines. They can win with crappy weapons. They can take a team and make it better with their elite talent and abilities. They are the QB’s who can carry a team on their back. Andy Dalton ain’t that. He’s not even in that second tier of guys, guys with the physical talent, but with a flaw or two in their game (or a lack of experience) that stops them from being truly elite. Andy Dalton is a perfectly average NFL QB. And that’s not a bad thing. > [@FGIE](#): > > The inferior QB with he better protection usually wins the game. I think this is overstating your point a bit. A superior O Line can truly help a QB, and if the QB’s are equal, the O line can really help win the game. But for the elite QB talents (Rodgers), the team with the worse protection can beat a guy like Dalton. > [@FGIE](#): > > How interesting that once formerly good teams fall to the wayside after one measly season. The Ravens aren’t as bad as they look to me, they just have a lot of moving parts right now…although I don’t think Flacco is a better QB than Dalton other than that he can throw it farther and he had a better RB and defense last season than we did. I don’t think Flacco is better than Dalton, but he is capable, as last year’s playoff run shows, of getting closer to elite than Dalton. He’s also capable, as last year’s rest of season shows, of being a lot worse than Dalton. Flacco got hot (and had Boldin) at the perfectly right time, and cashed a massive check because of it. To use the typical NFL draft lingo, Flacco has a higher ceiling (one he reached for 4 games last year) than Dalton, but Dalton’s floor is much higher. And on the Bengals, as built, I’d rather have Dalton than Flacco. But on the Ravens, I’d rather have Flacco. > [@FGIE](#): > > Times have changed. This is the dawn of the orange and black! Receive your communion, sip the sacramental wine and step the fuck out of the way or you’ll get run over! > > 🙂 Given Steeler Nation and Ray Lewis, I’ve grown to like the Bengals and Browns. So outside of this weekend, best of luck to them. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2/668660/129 "2013-09-19T12:50:01Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Well, that’s not a ridiculous statement or anything. _shrug_ I don’t think that much of Rice and Bernard will be better. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2/668660/130 "2013-09-19T16:03:36Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > _shrug_ I don’t think that much of Rice and Bernard will be better. That’s fine, but to say his floor is Ray Rice is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2/668660/131 "2013-09-19T17:09:34Z")
Fine. His floor is LaDanian Tomlinson. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2/668660/132 "2013-09-19T22:08:29Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > But neither is Dalton special. I think, if you took any of those QB’s I listed (except Tebow, he flat out sucks) and put them in Dalton’s position, they would be about the same, maybe a bit worse, maybe a bit better. But they could still win a Super Bowl for you. Dalton isn’t special. He’s the definition of an average QB in this league. But, I would say that only Tannehill would have similar success as Dalton has had if they swapped teams. Freeman has an elite WR and hasn’t done very much, for example. Limiting mistakes in the red zone is a clear example of good decision-making and skill. That Dalton has never thrown an interception in the red zone is a big deal. It says a lot about his ability, and some about how he really is just a game manager. But you’re kidding yourself if you think just anyone can limit mistakes the way Dalton does. You can be an elite QB even if you throw a ton of picks, but none of the guys you listed have the elite talent that would allow them to overcome a lot of mistakes. ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2/668660/133 "2013-09-20T00:12:23Z")
And to bring it to tonight’s topic, Dalton is Alex Smith. Take that how you will. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2/668660/134 "2013-09-20T00:29:01Z")
> [@Jules\_Andre](#): > > And to bring it to tonight’s topic, Dalton is Alex Smith. Take that how you will. Smith has the stronger arm and more prototypical height, whereas Dalton is more mobile and has a quicker release. But yeah, I can live with that comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2/668660/135 "2013-09-20T00:46:20Z")
The Thursday game has started, shouldn’t we be posting a Week 3 thread? ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2/668660/136 "2013-09-20T00:52:48Z")
Damn Thursday football. Too much. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2/668660/137 "2013-09-20T00:54:53Z")
Week 3 thread [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=702745). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-2/668660.md?page=6)