# NFL Week 3 2011 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 25, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3-2011/597569 "2011-09-25T17:04:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3-2011/597569/121 "2011-09-28T15:55:13Z")
The rules is the rules. I think the no-celebrating stuff is silly, but the “going to ground” one is well-known and consistently enforced. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3-2011/597569/122 "2011-09-28T15:59:02Z")
I thought it was clearly designed to punish certain pre-choreographed celebration. Do you think that the original intent was to make sure no one was allowed to celebrate with their teammates until they stood up again? The idea of punishing a guy who slides down to hug a teammate that just scored is crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3-2011/597569/123 "2011-09-28T16:07:33Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I thought it was clearly designed to punish certain pre-choreographed celebration. Do you think that the original intent was to make sure no one was allowed to celebrate with their teammates until they stood up again? > > The idea of punishing a guy who slides down to hug a teammate that just scored is crazy. It’s a double edged sword. Make the rule too vague and people get pissed about uneven enforcement. Make the rules too specific and people get screwed on technicalities. The NFL decided to make the celebration rules specific and standardized. The effect is that sometimes people violate the rule without violating the spirit of the rule. I suspect this better than wildly subjective and inconsistent enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3-2011/597569/124 "2011-09-28T16:14:34Z")
I’d rather have 100 unpunished showboating celebrations than one guy falling to the ground to hug his teammate and getting a potentially game-changing penalty for it. FWIW, I’ve seen other players celebrating on the ground in a non-showboaty fashion on the ground and I’ve never seen it called on them. ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3-2011/597569/125 "2011-09-28T20:01:46Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > The Giants led in yardage all day despite the Eagles having twice the time of possession. The Giants led after 1 because the Eagles were driving (a drive that would give them the lead in yardage) when the whistle blew. The Eagles led after 2. They were over a hundred yards ahead after 3. And they ended the game ahead in yardage. It wasn’t a significant advantage, that was a mistake on my part, but the Eagles were leading pretty much the entire game in yardage and T.o.P.. > [@kidchameleon](#): > > I liked the stat last night on how the Eagles have gotten more roughing the passer calls than anyone in the NFC East since Vick took over the starting job. Except that it’s a bullshit stat. For instance, Mike Kafka drew a roughing the passer flag against Atlanta. You’ll notice it doesn’t say **Vick** has gotten more flags than anyone else in the NFC East. (The debate is centered on Vick, not Kafka/Kolb - and Vick has not gotten more calls than anyone else in the NFC East, Eli has exactly as many for example). Far be it from you to question anything that criticizes the Eagles though. > [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > I’d like all the teams that cheap out on their O-lines in favor of QBs and the skill positions to STFU. If you refuse to address your line issues, then you should accept the risk of your star quarterback getting hurt. Don’t lobby the league to get the rules changed just to maintain your competitive advantage. Ugh… this couldn’t be more wrong. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3-2011/597569/126 "2011-09-29T15:24:34Z")
In an inexplicable move, the Browns sign Chris Gocong to a 3 year, 18 million dollar extension. He’s done… alright so far, but nothing to justify half that salary. Heckert is generally pretty shrewd about FA signings, so I think he must have a big hardon for Gocong. He was the one that drafted him. But damn, if you’re going to give anyone that money, sign DQ Jackson. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3-2011/597569/127 "2011-09-29T15:49:40Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I’d rather have 100 unpunished showboating celebrations than one guy falling to the ground to hug his teammate and getting a potentially game-changing penalty for it. > > FWIW, I’ve seen other players celebrating on the ground in a non-showboaty fashion on the ground and I’ve never seen it called on them. I think celebration penalties are completely unnecessary too. I never felt that anything TO or Ocho did was a problem. However, I think they saw a slippery slope coming and didn’t want the NFL to turn into Soccer where every score had a big choreographed celebration along with it. They may have been right, they may have been wrong. Personally I think they should ditch the rule and see what happens, if celebrations get out of hand again bring it back. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3-2011/597569/128 "2011-09-29T16:26:19Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I think celebration penalties are completely unnecessary too. I never felt that anything TO or Ocho did was a problem. However, I think they saw a slippery slope coming and didn’t want the NFL to turn into Soccer where every score had a big choreographed celebration along with it. They may have been right, they may have been wrong. Personally I think they should ditch the rule and see what happens, if celebrations get out of hand again bring it back. Dude, that rule goes all the way back to Ickey Woods and Billy “White Shoes” Johnson. The thing that made TO and Ochocinco more notable is their extraordinary arrogance. George Teague is now and forever will be the only Cowboy I truly admire because he took that arrogant ass and put a well-deserved hit on him. As for Ochocinco, when you start doing the prop thing it’s getting out of hand. Spike the football and be on your way, or, barring that, act like you’ve been there before and toss it to the refs. Then again, football players typically go out of their way to toss the ball away from the refs. Why is that, by the way? Do they think that by making the refs chase down a ball they might get a better spot or something? I often wonder why they toss the ball away when the ref is 2 feet away. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3-2011/597569/129 "2011-09-29T16:42:49Z")
I’d lobby for the call for excessive celebration be delay of game, 5 yards, because that’s all it is. Having it be the same penalty as trying to take someone’s head off is asinine. If a player really takes it too long, call a second one. Directly taunting an opponent? OK, call unsportsmanlike conduct if you have to. > [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > … > > Then again, football players typically go out of their way to toss the ball away from the refs. Why is that, by the way? Do they think that by making the refs chase down a ball they might get a better spot or something? I often wonder why they toss the ball away when the ref is 2 feet away. They’re probably tossing it to the ball boys. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3-2011/597569/130 "2011-09-29T16:56:36Z")
D’Qwell Jackson is the AFC Defensive player of the month, the first Brown to get it since Eric Turner in 1994. Well earned - he’s been pretty awesome with the Jauron middle plugger style of defense. He’s all over the place making tackles, but he has pretty good form and doesn’t make the big hits that’ll get him national attention. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3-2011/597569/131 "2011-09-29T16:56:53Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Dude, that rule goes all the way back to Ickey Woods and Billy “White Shoes” Johnson. The thing that made TO and Ochocinco more notable is their extraordinary arrogance. George Teague is now and forever will be the only Cowboy I truly admire because he took that arrogant ass and put a well-deserved hit on him. As for Ochocinco, when you start doing the prop thing it’s getting out of hand. Spike the football and be on your way, or, barring that, act like you’ve been there before and toss it to the refs. Who cares if it’s “out of hand”? It’s football. Pure entertainment. There are dancing girls in miniskirts on the sidelines! ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3-2011/597569/132 "2011-09-29T17:01:51Z")
Why do people get so bent out of shape by TD celebrations? The dude just scored a touchdown, who gives a shit if he wants to shuck and jive for a second. Celebrations after routine plays I can understand getting annoyed by, but not TDs. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > In an inexplicable move, the Browns sign Chris Gocong to a 3 year, 18 million dollar extension. He’s done… alright so far, but nothing to justify half that salary. Heckert is generally pretty shrewd about FA signings, so I think he must have a big hardon for Gocong. He was the one that drafted him. But damn, if you’re going to give anyone that money, sign DQ Jackson. Let’s wait and see if Jackson can stay healthy for an entire season first. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3-2011/597569/133 "2011-09-29T17:24:41Z")
I don’t mind a reasonable celebration, but TO was getting pretty obnoxious. For one thing, it’s a team sport. 10 other guys busted their ass to get you that ball, and I’d rather see you high five them than act like it’s a one-man show. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3-2011/597569/134 "2011-09-29T17:28:28Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Dude, that rule goes all the way back to Ickey Woods and Billy “White Shoes” Johnson. No it doesn’t. It’s was added in 2006. The props and going to the ground rules are new. Excessive celebration rules go back a long ways but were never enforced, enforcement and condefinition are recent developments in direct response to the stuff mentioned, notably Joe Horn’s cell phone and TO Sharpie. > [@](#): > > Then again, football players typically go out of their way to toss the ball away from the refs. Why is that, by the way? Do they think that by making the refs chase down a ball they might get a better spot or something? I often wonder why they toss the ball away when the ref is 2 feet away. Never noticed this at all. Must be a Steelers thing. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3-2011/597569/135 "2011-09-29T17:31:35Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > I don’t mind a reasonable celebration, but TO was getting pretty obnoxious. For one thing, it’s a team sport. 10 other guys busted their ass to get you that ball, and I’d rather see you high five them than act like it’s a one-man show. Celebrations are good for the game. Touchdown dances are my girlfriends favorite part of the game and kids love them, they help expand the NFL audience beyond traditional fans. The Ickey Shuffle was imitated by kids nationwide. The league should embrace them. Of course, like anything, it can go too far and cross the line of poor-sportsmanship and delay of game and should be controlled somewhat. You need to have balance. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3-2011/597569/136 "2011-09-29T17:34:15Z")
I was trying to find video of the penalty so you could see how ridiculous it is, but I couldn’t. But I did find: > [@](#): > > According to [Cleveland.com](http://Cleveland.com), count former vice president of NFL officiating and current Fox analyst Mike Pereira among those who thought the “excessive celebration” penalty levied against the Browns on Sunday was “a little excessive.” “It strikes me as technically being a foul but also one you could have gone without making, frankly,” said Pereira. I haven’t had the nfl network in a few years but from what I recall Pereira is a complete apologist and basically says the refs are never wrong, so for him to even go this far must mean it was complete bullshit. It was essentially that thing when one guy scores a TD and his nearest teammate runs up and grabs him from behind and hugs him and they jump around a bit - except since Massaquoi was on the ground from the catch, Watson got down on his knees before doing that same thing, and since both of them “went to the ground in celebration” or whatever it is, penalty. Absurd. And the effect wasn’t minor - spotting them 15 yards on the final drive of the game down by 1 was a pretty huge gift. Not only spotting 15, but turning what would’ve probably been a touchback into a returnable ball too. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3-2011/597569/137 "2011-09-29T17:45:47Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I was trying to find video of the penalty so you could see how ridiculous it is, but I couldn’t. But I did find: > I haven’t had the nfl network in a few years but from what I recall Pereira is a complete apologist and basically says the refs are never wrong, so for him to even go this far must mean it was complete bullshit. > > It was essentially that thing when one guy scores a TD and his nearest teammate runs up and grabs him from behind and hugs him and they jump around a bit - except since Massaquoi was on the ground from the catch, Watson got down on his knees before doing that same thing, and since both of them “went to the ground in celebration” or whatever it is, penalty. Absurd. > > And the effect wasn’t minor - spotting them 15 yards on the final drive of the game down by 1 was a pretty huge gift. Not only spotting 15, but turning what would’ve probably been a touchback into a returnable ball too. Keep in mind that Pereira was Vice President of Officiating until 2009. It as basically his job to be an apologist. Since 2010 he’s worked for Fox and is no longer and NFL employee. His discussions have become much more candid since. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3-2011/597569/138 "2011-09-29T17:46:09Z")
Yeah, I don’t give two shits about TD celebrations, but I think any player that stands up and starts pointing to one end after a flag or a fumble should be expelled from the game. That shit is annoying. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3-2011/597569/139 "2011-09-29T18:00:16Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > No it doesn’t. It’s was added in 2006. The props and going to the ground rules are new. Excessive celebration rules go back a long ways but were never enforced, enforcement and condefinition are recent developments in direct response to the stuff mentioned, notably Joe Horn’s cell phone and TO Sharpie. That may be, but Ickey Woods got sent to the sideline in 1989 to do the Ickey Shuffle, so its roots go back much further than 2006. > [@](#): > > Never noticed this at all. Must be a Steelers thing. Right. When you watch the game this week count how many times a player tosses the ball to the ref or hands it to him compared to how many times he tosses it away. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3-2011/597569/140 "2011-09-29T19:33:10Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Celebrations are good for the game. Touchdown dances are my girlfriends favorite part of the game and kids love them, they help expand the NFL audience beyond traditional fans. The Ickey Shuffle was imitated by kids nationwide. The league should embrace them. Of course, like anything, it can go too far and cross the line of poor-sportsmanship and delay of game and should be controlled somewhat. You need to have balance. I think we’re actually in total agreement. I loved the ickey shuffle, and I love seeing a fat guy score, because then you get to see a fat guy dance. What I don’t want to see is some idiot wiping his ass with the ball or running back to the middle of the field just to be a dick. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3-2011/597569.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3-2011/597569.md?page=8)