# NFL Week 3 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 20, 2012, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273 "2012-09-20T15:26:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/241 "2012-09-25T14:39:39Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Yea, I’m done. That was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me in terms of watching this abortion of a season’s beginning. I might be back if the lockout is resolved, but honestly - I might not even bother. I’ve heard this sentiment a lot, and I wish there was a site I could visit to track the stick-to-it-ive-ness of the boycotters. “Honestly - I might not” isn’t the sort of language that’ll keep NFL’s advertisers up at night. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/242 "2012-09-25T14:44:19Z")
The worst part, for me, is that the simultaneous catch ruling was the least-wrong. IMHO, it was a correct call, but the push-off should have been called, too. (BTW, Jennings, bat the fucking ball away, you idiot.) What shouldn’t have been called were the “roughing” the passer negating a GB interception, and the “defensive” pass interference against GB when it was either nothing at all or OPI. There were a few other things, too. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/243 "2012-09-25T14:48:13Z")
Here’s a [link](http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=320924026) to the play and the refs, standing side by side, giving different calls. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/244 "2012-09-25T14:52:09Z")
Strategy question regarding the Packers-Seahawks: The only bit of football I’ve watched is the replay of the controversial play. I’m wondering why the Packers player attempted to catch the ball at all. Wouldn’t it have been easier to bat the ball down or out of bounds? I’m left thinking that by trying to catch the ball, he made it possible for the Seahawks player to grab at the ball too. Officiating aside, what should the Packers player have done? Try to catch the ball? or try to smack it out of play? ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/245 "2012-09-25T14:54:21Z")
He should have batted the ball down. They are so keyed up to get that INT though that it’s tempting to go for the ball. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/246 "2012-09-25T14:57:59Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Officiating aside, what should the Packers player have done? Try to catch the ball? or try to smack it out of play? Bat it down. At least that’s what you are coached to do. On rare, rare occasions, that bites you in the ass (see Texans@Jags 2010), but you usually just want to bat the ball down. Of course, that could be the situation here. In this case, it could be he thought there was no clean angle to bat the ball down that wouldn’t risk a Seattle catch. Or just trying to be a hero. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/247 "2012-09-25T14:58:25Z")
Batting the ball occasionally results in it going straight into a receiver’s arms, so in a crowd it makes sense to go for the pick. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/248 "2012-09-25T15:00:40Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Strategy question regarding the Packers-Seahawks: > > The only bit of football I’ve watched is the replay of the controversial play. I’m wondering why the Packers player attempted to catch the ball at all. Wouldn’t it have been easier to bat the ball down or out of bounds? I’m left thinking that by trying to catch the ball, he made it possible for the Seahawks player to grab at the ball too. > Officiating aside, what should the Packers player have done? Try to catch the ball? or try to smack it out of play? On Sunday, the Lions were down by 7 with less than 20 seconds and fired a hail mary into the end zone. A Tennessee defender batted the ball away from the receiver – but right into the arms of another Lions player, who scored and forced overtime. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/249 "2012-09-25T15:02:21Z")
Unless you bat the ball to a receiver. Beaten to it, but the point stands. The guy didn’t return a pick and fumble it away. He caught it with the receiver right there and he should’ve been credited with the pick. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/250 "2012-09-25T15:09:36Z")
Ah, Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. But what about whipping it out of play? I don’t know if that was possible in the given situation, but they were in the end zone, so out of bounds couldn’t have been very far away. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/251 "2012-09-25T15:13:39Z")
> [@mkecane](#): > > To clarify, a blocked extra point (or interception/fumble recovery on a 2-pt conversion) do not result in 2 points for the defensive team. That’s a college rule. But they could run it back for a touchdown couldn’t they? If so, the extra point attempt was not meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/252 "2012-09-25T15:13:48Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Ah, Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. > But what about whipping it out of play? I don’t know if that was possible in the given situation, but they were in the end zone, so out of bounds couldn’t have been very far away. Yes, he could’ve tried to knock it up in the air or turn around at the height of his jump in the middle of a crowd and tried to whip the thing four yards backward. Or he could just catch the thing since it hit him in the chest. > [@Procrustus](#): > > But they could run it back for a touchdown couldn’t they? No: > [@DCnDC](#): > > No. In the NFL the ball cannot be advanced by the defense on PATs because the ball is dead immediately once the kick is unsuccessful, no matter whether it is blocked or simply misses. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/253 "2012-09-25T15:15:07Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > First of all, this fiasco was utterly brilliant TV. Made all the sweeter by my being a Bears fan. I mean, just terrific. I’m going to love rubbing this in at work tomorrow and it feels good to be **on top of the division.** On top of the division **tied with the Vikings**. Don’t get too far ahead of yourself, Bears fan. In fact, since the Bears have a division loss and the Vikings don’t, you can make the case that he Vikings actually stand alone at the top, ahead of the Bears. (And yes, we Vikes fans have to enjoy this while we can - I have no delusions it’s going to last very long.) > [@Omniscient](#): > > Last, and I know I’m a long ways from impartial, but I didn’t see that call as nearly as obvious as everyone else. I think the TV announcers have colored the national dialogue on this one. From what I saw, Jennings had possession of the ball in the air and Tate got his arm inside of his chest and 2 hands on the ball before both players came down to the ground. Once on the ground it really looked like simultaneous possession to me. Jennings clearly had possession in the air, but that doesn’t count until they both establish position on the ground and that was much closer to simultaneous. > > The announcers were trying to make some argument about the ball being on Jennings chest as being evidence of a catch or possession but that’s not a rule I’ve ever heard of. Please view the following linked picture to eliminate this hypothesis. Tate is on the ground, underneath Jennings. Jennings has the ball wrapped in his arms. Tate has one hand _on top of Jennings’ hands_ and the other arm _wrapped around Jennings’ neck_. Simultaneous possession? I don’t think so. > [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Oh yeah, [this](http://www.flickr.com/photos/25268857@N02/8023232722/) was a simultaneous catch…in Bizarro World. > > BTW, can we please stop calling them replacement refs and call them by their proper names…scabs. Does it make a difference since the original refs would still be working while they were negotiating, except the NFL and the owners locked them out? The refs aren’t on strike. The league is refusing to let them work. You may still call these guys scabs, but let’s make sure we know who’s responsible. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/254 "2012-09-25T15:16:01Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > But they could run it back for a touchdown couldn’t they? If so, the extra point attempt was not meaningless. No. The defensive team can never score on an extra point attempt: [ > [@NFL Rules](#): > > After a touchdown, the scoring team is allowed a try during one scrimmage down. The ball may be spotted anywhere between the inbounds lines, two or more yards from the goal line. The successful conversion counts one point by kick; two points for a successful conversion by touchdown; or one point for a safety. > > The defensive team never can score on a try. As soon as defense gets possession or the kick is blocked or a touchdown is not scored, the try is over. > > Any distance penalty for fouls committed by the defense that prevent the try from being attempted can be enforced on the succeeding try or succeeding kickoff. Any foul committed on a successful try will result in a distance penalty being assessed on the ensuing kickoff. > > Only the fumbling player can recover and advance a fumble during a try. ]([http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/try](http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/try)) ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/255 "2012-09-25T15:22:53Z")
So the Jennings makes a great play, leaps highest, intercepts the ball and folks are saying he is the one who screwed up? Classic. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/256 "2012-09-25T15:32:25Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > So the Jennings makes a great play, leaps highest, intercepts the ball and folks are saying he is the one who screwed up? Classic. I’m not saying he screwed up, I’m asking about strategy. It isn’t a matter of good versus bad, but good versus better. Going into the play, not knowing precisely what will happen, what should the mindset be? Try and catch the ball or try and knock the ball down? To my _untrained_ eye, it seems that catching the ball is harder. What if he tried to catch the ball, but failed and that led to a legitimate touchdown? I’m not asking about what happened, I’m asking about the entire space of what _could have happened_ and what strategies should be employed. I recognize that he got screwed; I’m not asking about that. ---
**Author:** ![FlightlessBird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@FlightlessBird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlightlessBird)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/257 "2012-09-25T15:32:27Z")
No, but everyone but the guy involved knows the right play is to bat it down. In the same way that when a guy intercepts the ball at the end of the game he always tries to run it… until everyone on his team says to take a knee. It’s just a hard habit to break even when you know in your head what the right thing to do is. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/258 "2012-09-25T15:32:40Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > So the Jennings makes a great play, leaps highest, intercepts the ball and folks are saying he is the one who screwed up? Classic. It’s a fair question to ask. Great plays aren’t just about who jumps highest, they’re also about doing the right thing at the right time. If batting the ball down is the preferred technique for the situation he was in, he should have batted it down instead of catching it. I think the situation was such that catching was a reasonable choice. If he was more clear, batting is a good choice because there’s no chance of a bobble, and you can direct the ball out of bounds. If he was less clear, catching is not much of an option, so a batted ball is your best bet. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/259 "2012-09-25T15:34:34Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > What if he tried to catch the ball, but failed and that led to a legitimate touchdown? What if Elvis appeared in the endzone on a cloud and took Golden Tate away to Care-a-Lot? Going for the catch is not any riskier than batting the ball down. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/260 "2012-09-25T15:38:53Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > No. The defensive team can never score on an extra point attempt: Additionally, noted for completeness: the defense can’t even score on a recovered 2-point conversion; the recovered ball would be dead and the conversion attempt would be ruled “no good.” There is such a thing as a “conversion safety” for 1 point, however that 1 point would still go to the offense. [Quote] ([Safety (gridiron football score) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_(American_football_score)#Safeties_on_PAT.2Fconversion_tries)): > [@](#): > > Under NFL rules, an unsuccessful extra-point is dead if kicked, but while attempting a two-point try, it is possible for a safety to be ruled if the defensive team forces the ball back into their own end zone and they recover. One point would be awarded ( **to the offense** ), instead of the two points that are normally awarded for safeties, Although the offense would still kick off, since they just scored a touchdown. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273.md?page=14)