# NFL Week 3 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 20, 2012, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273 "2012-09-20T15:26:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/301 "2012-09-25T19:20:07Z")
In my defense, I heard a talking head on ESPN mention the potential for the defense to score points as to why they made them kick the FG. It was well after midnight and I had just woken up because my husband couldn’t stop giggling, so maybe I misheard. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/302 "2012-09-25T19:22:17Z")
Packers guard TJ Lang tweeted “Fuck it NFL… fine me and use it to pay the regular refs.” Awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/303 "2012-09-25T19:23:33Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > That’s gotta feel good to Schaub. Cheap shotting sonsabitches rough you twice on consecutive plays so throw a touch. POS Mays ought to see a fine for that one. He got a one game suspension with a $50,000 fine. He’ll be appealing. Not “wow he’s attractive” appealing, but “Huh? Why should I miss a game and have to pay a fine for launching myself at somebody’s head after he threw the ball?” appealing. ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/304 "2012-09-25T19:29:18Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > The relevant rule is this one: > The second sentence makes it abundantly clear that the call was incorrect. While I wouldn’t say _abundantly_ clear, this is enough for me to accept that it should have been ruled an interception. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/305 "2012-09-25T19:29:24Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Somebody should have been ejected after that. I probably would have ejected just Browner if Jennings had not gotten up and charge/tackled him. After they wrestled to the ground, both of them were throwing punches, so I’d have tossed them both. That was another bad call by the refs. Jennings should have been tossed and the penalty should have been on Green Bay. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/306 "2012-09-25T19:31:12Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Bat it down. At least that’s what you are coached to do. > > On rare, rare occasions, that bites you in the ass (see Texans@Jags 2010), but you usually just want to bat the ball down. > > Of course, that could be the situation here. In this case, it could be he thought there was no clean angle to bat the ball down that wouldn’t risk a Seattle catch. Or just trying to be a hero. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Batting the ball occasionally results in it going straight into a receiver’s arms, so in a crowd it makes sense to go for the pick. It happened precisely like that in the Titans-Lions game _this week_. Seen [here](http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/hail-mary-pass-questionable-reffing-miscommunication-mark-lions-224747142--nfl.html). > [@Uncle\_Jocko](#): > > Please view the following linked picture to eliminate this hypothesis. Tate is on the ground, underneath Jennings. Jennings has the ball wrapped in his arms. Tate has one hand _on top of Jennings’ hands_ and the other arm _wrapped around Jennings’ neck_. Simultaneous possession? I don’t think so. It’s bizarre how people can watch this and see completely different things. Look at that photo again. You cannot see Tate’s left arm. Tate’s right arm is across the top of the ball over Jenning’s bicep. Tate’s _left arm_ is pinned between the ball and Jennings chest. This arm is what gave Tate the leverage to eventually win the ball away at the bottom of the pile and is what drives the simultaneous possession argument. That left arm was fully inside of Jennings grasp before they came down. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/307 "2012-09-25T19:31:13Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > It’s apparently the case that, whereas video review can be used to decide whether a receiver did or did not retain possession of a catch, it cannot be used to decide whether or not the standards for a simultaneous catch were met - thus once the bad call had been made it could not be overturned. Why this sort of thing should not be reviewable is hard to say. Peter King wrote today that the ruling of a simultaneous catch is reviewable in the end zone, but not in the rest of the field, so it was reviewable in this case. I linked to his column somewhere earlier in the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/308 "2012-09-25T19:33:59Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > The relevant rule is this one: > The second sentence makes it abundantly clear that the call was incorrect. No it doesn’t. “Control” doesn’t happen until the players are fully on the ground. You’re making the assumption that Jennings “controlled” the ball at the top of his leap, that’s not possible based on the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/309 "2012-09-25T19:37:13Z")
> [@Uncle\_Jocko](#): > > On top of the division **tied with the Vikings**. Don’t get too far ahead of yourself, Bears fan. In fact, since the Bears have a division loss and the Vikings don’t, you can make the case that he Vikings actually stand alone at the top, ahead of the Bears. (And yes, we Vikes fans have to enjoy this while we can - I have no delusions it’s going to last very long.) That’s the way we’re feeling in Buffalo. We all know the Patriots are going to come back but we’re enjoying being ahead of them now. ---
**Author:** ![mkecane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mkecane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkecane)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/310 "2012-09-25T19:43:05Z")
I missed that from **Uncle Jocko**. Skol, Vikings! ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/311 "2012-09-25T19:44:09Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > You could not be more wrong, every official i have read and heard and seen has said that is in no way a simultaneous catch. I heard Larry Fitzgerald say it was an interception, I have seen former players all say it was an interception. The only people trying to justify it as simultaneous are Seahawks fans, That’s the exact same statement that was made following the Calvin Johnson non-catch in the Bears-Lions game 2 season ago. Everyone agreed that when viewed from a pure common sense standpoint it was obviously a catch. Officials, announcers and players all agreed. ESPN and the media obviously latched onto the narrative and drove it down peoples throats with selective quoting. That said, when you nitpick and parse the rule like a lawyer it’s probably still a correct call. Seems to be the same situation here. The media and the people who are only going by what their common sense tells them are emphatic in their certainty about this call. They are saying “Jennings clearly had it!” without rigorously parsing the definition of a catch before parsing the definition of a simultaneous catch. I’m not going to say that it’s clearly the right call, but it’s also not clearly the wrong call. Tate definitely had 2 hands on the ball before they came down, Jennings just had the ball closer to his body. I haven’t heard anyone make the case that that’s in anyway decisive when determining “possession”. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/312 "2012-09-25T19:49:02Z")
Also, this game was decided karmically when Rodgers decided to go full-on douche by busting out the Shooter McGavin. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/313 "2012-09-25T19:49:58Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Packers guard TJ Lang tweeted “Fuck it NFL.. fine me and use it to pay the regular refs.” > > Awesome. Holy Shit - I suddenly think that’s what the owners are doing! Levy enough in fines to cover the demands of the regular refs, then pay them with the fine money! Brilliant! My favorite text of the night, from my brother, while everyone was running around everywhere on the field after the play: “This is awesome. It’s like the ending of **Slapshot**.” ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/314 "2012-09-25T20:02:18Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > No it doesn’t. “Control” doesn’t happen until the players are fully on the ground. You’re making the assumption that Jennings “controlled” the ball at the top of his leap, that’s not possible based on the rules. I don’t think you’re right about this. With a play like this or the Calvin Johnson one last year, you have to maintain control as you go to the ground. That means that control has been established before the process of the catch is complete; you must have control in order for it to be possible to maintain it. Jennings has control of the ball in the air. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/315 "2012-09-25T20:11:43Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > \ and then quotes rules so as to blur any distinction between ‘possession’ and ‘catch’ (even though the rulebook says ‘simultaneous catch’ and makes it clear that it’s catching that matters, not ‘gaining possession’ in the sense of landing in-bounds, etc.). Now I’m scared because it seems Goodell reads the Straight Dope and takes my advice on how to interpret the rules - even after I admitted I was wrong. I’m kind of disappointed that the Packers took the field for the PAT. I was hoping that Carroll would show some class and have Wilson spike the ball against no defense. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/316 "2012-09-25T20:11:54Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > No it doesn’t. “Control” doesn’t happen until the players are fully on the ground. You’re making the assumption that Jennings “controlled” the ball at the top of his leap, that’s not possible based on the rules. The catch is irrelevant. The correct call on that play was offensive pass interference on Seattle, game over, Packers win. Even the NFL admits that much. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/317 "2012-09-25T20:23:16Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > The catch is irrelevant. The correct call on that play was offensive pass interference on Seattle, game over, Packers win. Even the NFL admits that much. That’s just it. Even if you bend over backward to convince yourself (although not really anyone else) that somehow catching Jennings means you caught the ball too, there was an undisputable pass interference call that should have ended the game with a Packer win. No matter how you slice it, the Packers lost due to very bad officiating. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/318 "2012-09-25T20:34:37Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > I don’t think you’re right about this. With a play like this or the Calvin Johnson one last year, you have to maintain control as you go to the ground. That means that control has been established before the process of the catch is complete; you must have control in order for it to be possible to maintain it. Jennings has control of the ball in the air. This is a pretty good argument. I’m not sure the rules that I’ve read are clear enough to say who’s right, I think it’s open to both yours and my interpretation. > [@Oakminster](#): > > The catch is irrelevant. The correct call on that play was offensive pass interference on Seattle, game over, Packers win. Even the NFL admits that much. No argument there. I laugh so hard every time I watch that replay. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/319 "2012-09-25T20:38:46Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > That’s just it. Even if you bend over backward to convince yourself (although not really anyone else) that somehow catching Jennings means you caught the ball too, there was an undisputable pass interference call that should have ended the game with a Packer win. No matter how you slice it, the Packers lost due to very bad officiating. And I would argue the Packers took the lead or at least got a touchdown instead of a field goal because of poor officiating making the last play moot. But even that doesn’t take into account all of the other bad calls like the DPI not called on the last drive or the Roughing the Passer on the Packers after hitting Wilson one step after he threw the ball or the personal fouls that should have been called on the Seahawks if the officials had some field awareness. I think we can all agree it was a clusterfuck and both teams got screwed throughout the game. If it had been properly officiated, who knows who would have won. > [@borschevsky](#): > > I don’t think you’re right about this. With a play like this or the Calvin Johnson one last year, you have to maintain control as you go to the ground. That means that control has been established before the process of the catch is complete; you must have control in order for it to be possible to maintain it. Jennings has control of the ball in the air. This is where I made my mistake in interpreting the rule. You catch the ball then land to establish possession. Jennings and Tate had simultaneous possession but not a simultaneous catch. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/320 "2012-09-25T20:40:17Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I think we can all agree it was a clusterfuck and both teams got screwed throughout the game. If it had been properly officiated, who knows who would have won. That was my conclusion after the Pats-Ravens game on Sunday night. The final play wasn’t (too) controversial; but there were so many bullshit calls and non-calls throughout the game that you had to wonder who would have won if there had been real refs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273.md?page=17)