# NFL Week 3 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 20, 2012, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273 "2012-09-20T15:26:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/362 "2012-09-26T17:59:21Z")
> **[Sources: Deal between NFL, refs very close](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/8427652/locked-nfl-referees-return-early-week-sources)** > > The NFL and the NFL Referees Association made enough progress in negotiations Tuesday night that the possibility of the locked-out officials returning in time to work this week's games has been discussed, according to sources on both sides. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/363 "2012-09-26T18:00:45Z")
Surely this will end soon…won’t it? This can’t really continue like it has, especially in light of the Seahawks game… ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/364 "2012-09-26T18:01:08Z")
Has the NFL actually lost any revenue? ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/365 "2012-09-26T18:04:36Z")
It looks like a bunch of sources were saying there was a deal, then about 2-4 hours ago sources were saying “no deal”, and then about an hour ago sources were saying there is a deal. I heard refs are undergoing physicals and getting measured for new uniforms. Who really knows? The races to scoop each other with sports information in an instant world are crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/366 "2012-09-26T18:05:51Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Has the NFL actually lost any revenue? No. Ratings are up and attendance is broadly the same as the first three weeks of last season. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/367 "2012-09-26T18:05:54Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Has the NFL actually lost any revenue? Doubtful, but they probably will start losing money if the officiating remains this god-awful. If I were a Packers fan I’d be absolutely lived at the outcome of that game. Heck, I am pretty upset that a game between two teams I have no emotional investment in wasn’t officiated properly/fairly. It needs to stop. It’s ruining the game. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/368 "2012-09-26T18:06:45Z")
Ratings are probably up because of this, people want to tune in and see the goofy shit happening. Not sure what sort of long term damage will be wrought by the general cynicism directed at the league, perhaps particularly from people who were starting to waver in their interest anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/369 "2012-09-26T18:15:27Z")
Hope the refs increased their demands, I know I would have. That said, they have a pretty plum gig as it is. Also, and completely off topic, I was in Vegas 2 weekends ago and was playing blackjack with an older guy on Sunday night. He was wearing a Bucs t-shirt and an NFL logo hat. I didn’t think much of it because everyone was wearing NFL gear on a football Sunday but the NFL hat didn’t really look like something you could buy in a store, more like a give away item to corporate sponsors or something. As we played a little longer - and took our eyes off the 2 strippers that were sitting between us and this NFL dude - we noticed the guy wearing a big-ass ring that looked an awful lot like a Super Bowl ring. We whispered about it a little trying to decide if he’s someone we should recognize. Eventually we shrugged and decided that he must just be a superfan who bought a replica, since he didn’t exactly look like a guy with real money. A half hour later after the girls left and the table heated up we started chatting more. Came to find out the guy was the down marker for the Bucs. You know the little dude who stands on the sideline at the line of scrimmage between the 1st down markers and flicks the numbers? That guy. Turns out that guy is a employee of the team, he’d been there some 12 years, and that guy gets a Super Bowl Ring when the team wins a title! This ref thing reminded me of all the random jobs that go into the league for a mere 8 weeks a year. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/370 "2012-09-26T18:21:32Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Has the NFL actually lost any revenue? I would guess that the real pressure would come from not the ticket and TV share but from the sponsors and partners who don’t want to invest in so much negative publicity. Fans will watch no matter what and sometime a trainwreck is the biggest audience, and the TV stations are OK with the ratings but if their ad buyers are complaining about the tone of the show that could impact them. I’m guessing Sprint (or whoever the NFL’s Official Mobile Partner is this season) doesn’t want their service to be associated with rank incompetence from the NFLs employees. They are selling confidence and competence and the NFL usually inspires that emotion. Marketing people really buy into that type of stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/371 "2012-09-26T18:36:01Z")
Um… really? When I think of the NFL, competence isn’t even among the top 20 things I think of. And I’m a _fan_. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/372 "2012-09-26T18:37:44Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Um… really? When I think of the NFL, competence isn’t even among the top 20 things I think of. And I’m a _fan_. I think pretty much up until this referee fiasco that the NFL has been extremely competent at growing its brand, protecting its image and…making money. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/373 "2012-09-26T18:59:07Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > The fact that “possession” is not used anywhere in that description implies to me that catch and possession are synonyms and not mutually exclusive. This is a puzzling statement. First, how could anyone contend that “catch” and “possession” are mutually exclusive? That would mean that they can’t possibly happen together - which pretty much says that a complete pass is impossible. But they are also clearly not synonymous. The obvious example is when a receiver catches the ball but fails to keep control of it when he falls to the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/374 "2012-09-26T19:04:24Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Um… really? When I think of the NFL, competence isn’t even among the top 20 things I think of. And I’m a _fan_. Corporate America sees the NFL as almost flawless, the perfect marketing partner, the only more reliable brand is probably Apple but the NFL comes with far fewer detractors. It evokes the perfect blend of emotions for high-end products and low-end products alike. There’s a reason both IBM and McDonalds advertise side-by-side with the NFL. This ref fiasco isn’t going to scare away MCdonalds, but it might scare away IBM regardless of the number of impressions they are getting. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/375 "2012-09-26T19:06:25Z")
I heard a rumor that there were something like 14 other football games over the weekend besides the SEA-GB game. Any of you guys know anything about that? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/376 "2012-09-26T19:07:18Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > But they are also clearly not synonymous. The obvious example is when a receiver catches the ball but fails to keep control of it when he falls to the ground. If he loses control then he didn’t catch it. When the ref goes under the hood, this is exactly what he says. “After further review, it’s not a catch!” Absolutely nowhere in the rulebook is there any definition that I’ve seen that defines a “catch” as anything besides possession. That unique definition is something invented in this thread and bar room conversations everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/377 "2012-09-26T19:30:50Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > When the ref goes under the hood, this is exactly what he says. “After further review, it’s not a catch!” He may occasionally say that, but the correct terminology is “the pass was incomplete”. > [@](#): > > Absolutely nowhere in the rulebook is there any definition that I’ve seen that defines a “catch” as anything besides possession. How about the first sentence of the rule previously quoted: “If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers.” This seems clearly to state that possession requires the ball to be both caught and retained - a catch is not of itself considered possession. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/378 "2012-09-26T19:32:47Z")
**Xema** , I think the word you’re looking for is “control” rather than “catch.” The NFL seems to use “catch” somewhat loosely, but “control” more precisely. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/379 "2012-09-26T20:06:00Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > I think the word you’re looking for is “control” rather than “catch.” The NFL seems to use “catch” somewhat loosely, but “control” more precisely. Right, but I was trying, in terms of language used in the quoted rule, to show that there is a distinction between “catch” and “possession”. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/380 "2012-09-26T20:43:10Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I think pretty much up until this referee fiasco that the NFL has been extremely competent at growing its brand, protecting its image and…making money. Yeah, but not at putting on well-run athletic competitions. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273/381 "2012-09-26T20:55:40Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yeah, but not at putting on well-run athletic competitions. Sometimes that’s secondary. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-3/635273.md?page=20)