# NFL Week 4 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 1, 2009, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/512195 "2009-10-01T02:17:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/512195/121 "2009-10-06T17:02:20Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The really weird part was that they were slobbering all over Favre’s wedding tackle, but gave the offensive line no credit. Then when Peterson had a good run, they gave all the credit to Steve Hutchinson for moving his defender three inches and thereby “opening up a huge hole”. > > Frankly, the pass protection Favre got was as good as any I’ve ever seen, while the run blocking was average at best- yet Favre got knob-slobbered. Is that surprising? It devolved into a Favre-fest. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/512195/122 "2009-10-06T17:03:30Z")
It was surprising that the offensive line got credit for something they didn’t do and no credit for something they did. I expected better from Jaworski. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/512195/123 "2009-10-06T17:04:44Z")
From memory: Akili Smith, Kyle Boller, Aaron Rodgers, Joey Harrington. After looking it up, I forgot Trent Dilfer, Billy Volek, and A.J. Feeley. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/512195/124 "2009-10-06T17:08:52Z")
I always felt bad for Volek. He should have been starting somewhere, but nobody gave him a shot. Hell, Feeley and Matt Schaub got starting jobs (and contracts) after showing less on the field. ---
**Author:** ![UncleNito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/7cd45c/32.png) [@UncleNito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleNito)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/512195/125 "2009-10-06T17:10:47Z")
> [@UncleNito](#): > > Rodgers is on pace to get sacked 64 times this year – and throw 4 interceptions. Make that 80 sacks and 4 interceptions. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![UncleNito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/7cd45c/32.png) [@UncleNito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleNito)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/512195/126 "2009-10-06T17:15:03Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > Alex Smith was seen as a greatly superior prospect. The big cloud that was hanging over Aaron Rogers was the fact that he played in the Pac-10 and under Jeff Tedford, whose systems tend to inflate a quarterback’s stats. Yeah, the “Tedford Curse” was the big knock on Aaron Rodgers. Notwithstanding the fact that Trent Dilfer won as many Superbowls as Brett Favre, Dan Marino, and Jim Kelly put together. I don’t even remember a lot of analysts claiming that he was a “system QB”; they all pretty much just said, “Well, he’s a Tedford guy…” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/512195/127 "2009-10-06T17:20:02Z")
> [@UncleNito](#): > > Make that 80 sacks and 4 interceptions. :smack: Holy cow- I didn’t realize that was his _first_ interception of the season. > [@UncleNito](#): > > Yeah, the “Tedford Curse” was the big knock on Aaron Rodgers. Notwithstanding the fact that Trent Dilfer won as many Superbowls as Brett Favre, Dan Marino, and Jim Kelly put together. I don’t even remember a lot of analysts claiming that he was a “system QB”; they all pretty much just said, “Well, he’s a Tedford guy…” Trent Dilfer didn’t win a Super Bowl. He just managed not to lose one. You can’t honestly say you’d take Dilfer in his prime over any of the guys you just mentioned- or even over three quarters of the guys starting in the NFL right now. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/512195/128 "2009-10-06T17:58:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The really weird part was that they were slobbering all over Favre’s wedding tackle, but gave the offensive line no credit. Then when Peterson had a good run, they gave all the credit to Steve Hutchinson for moving his defender three inches and thereby “opening up a huge hole”. > > Frankly, the pass protection Favre got was as good as any I’ve ever seen, while the run blocking was average at best- yet Favre got knob-slobbered. Favre definitely got some good protection last night, but it wasn’t all O-line. He was also working the pump fake like crazy. On that one play where he dropped back and danced around for what seemed like an hour he must have pumped about four times. It kept freezing the LB’s. A little veteran savvy helped him out on more than one play. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/512195/129 "2009-10-06T18:01:52Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That pass interference call was an absolute joke- worst phantom penalty of the season so far- but I don’t think the Packers would have won even had it not occurred. Well, the Vikings would have kicked a field goal, instead of a TD, so --assuming the rest of the game played out similarly – on the Packers’ last drive, they would have been down by six rather than 10. Therefore, the Packers would have gone for it on fourth down, rather than kicking a field goal. If the Packers had scored and kicked the extra point, they would have been up by one, and only had to keep the Vikings from scoring with less than a minute to play. I put the Packers’ odds of converting the 4th down and eventually scoring a TD as at just over 50/50, so, yeah, I think you can say that the Packers would have won had the PI call not occured. (No love for the refs pulling out the “I’m an NBA ref and I’ve decided to give you a Technical no matter what you do” Taunting call?) I mean, I don’t really think the NFL is heading towards NBA style refereeing (well, except that all the officials are terrified of the Colts owner), but too many more games like this one, and I’ll start entertaining the idea. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/512195/130 "2009-10-06T18:05:02Z")
Jeez, people, I agree that Favre gets way too much adulation from the media, but the guy played an absolutely fantastic game last night. Whatever undeserved praise he tends to get, he deserved it last night. Deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/512195/131 "2009-10-06T18:15:47Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > Well, the Vikings would have kicked a field goal, instead of a TD, so --assuming the rest of the game played out similarly – on the Packers’ last drive, they would have been down by six rather than 10. Therefore, the Packers would have gone for it on fourth down, rather than kicking a field goal. Am I misremembering the situation where this happened? The PI was on first and goal from the 3, and there was also an offside call. So the difference is that on PI the ball is placed on the 1, and offside is half the distance to the goal, so the 1.5. Not much difference. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/512195/132 "2009-10-06T18:37:54Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > Am I misremembering the situation where this happened? The PI was on first and goal from the 3, and there was also an offside call. So the difference is that on PI the ball is placed on the 1, and offside is half the distance to the goal, so the 1.5. Not much difference. You are remembering correctly. There were two flags on that play. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/512195/133 "2009-10-06T18:58:50Z")
Everyone in the other thread keeps saying there was an offside call, but I distinctly remember the offside call being on the next play, where they scored anyway. ---
**Author:** ![pricciar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@pricciar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pricciar)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/512195/134 "2009-10-06T19:05:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Everyone in the other thread keeps saying there was an offside call, but I distinctly remember the offside call being on the next play, where they scored anyway. > **[Vikings 30-23 Packers (Oct 5, 2009) Play-by-Play - ESPN](https://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=291005016&period=2)** > > Play-by-play action for the Minnesota Vikings vs. Green Bay Packers NFL game from October 5, 2009 on ESPN. The defense was offsides on both plays. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/512195/135 "2009-10-06T20:42:48Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > Am I misremembering the situation where this happened? The PI was on first and goal from the 3, and there was also an offside call. So the difference is that on PI the ball is placed on the 1, and offside is half the distance to the goal, so the 1.5. Not much difference. So, you’re saying that the referees handing the game to the BF!BF!BF!s on the defensive holding call didn’t matter because the refs would have handed the game to the BF!BF!BF!s on an offsides call anyway? I mean, I see your point, but it’s kind of weak at refuting the general “Referees cost the Packers the game” theory. And of course, the down doesn’t matter because the ball was intercepted. I screwed up in saying the Vikings would have gotten three points; they would have gotten zero. Instead, if the rest of the game’s possessions unfolded identically except for the penalties on the interception, the Packers would have kicked a field goal to tie in on their last possession and the game goes to OT. So I suppose on a technicality I won’t argue that the Packers would ‘probably’ have won without the calls (assuming OT is 50/50), but it was a huge flag. [Hmm. Link says Defensive Pass Interference, but I remember defensive holding being signalled. I suppose if the ball was spotted at the 1, it was enforced as PI, anyway.] ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/512195/136 "2009-10-06T20:44:23Z")
It was definitely pass interference. Oh, and thanks, **picciar.** ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/512195/137 "2009-10-06T20:58:12Z")
There wouldn’t have been an interception regardless, because the Packers were offsides. The offsides wasn’t a judgement call. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/512195/138 "2009-10-06T21:46:10Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > Alex Smith was seen as a greatly superior prospect. Not really. He was somewhat better regarded, but up until a couple weeks before the draft it appeared to be not too unlikely that SF would take Rogers first. > [@](#): > > Also fun: it wasn’t until after the combine, that supposedly people realized that Alex Smith’s hands were too small to fit around a professional football the same way they fit around a college ball. I don’t buy that, though. I have a hard time believing that no NFL team tossed an NFL-size ball to him and told him to throw. College and the pros use the same size ball. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/512195/139 "2009-10-06T21:55:29Z")
Rodgers is amazing. He’s been running for his life for 3 games and yet he’s only thrown 1 int, and he’s a top 3 scorer in any reasonable fantasy scoring system. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/512195/140 "2009-10-06T22:20:31Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > So, you’re saying that the referees handing the game to the BF!BF!BF!s on the defensive holding call didn’t matter because the refs would have handed the game to the BF!BF!BF!s on an offsides call anyway? > > I mean, I see your point, but it’s kind of weak at refuting the general “Referees cost the Packers the game” theory. No, I’m saying that regardless of how bad the interference call was, it had effectively no impact on the outcome of the game. If that call hadn’t been made, the only difference is that the Vikings would be 1st and goal from the 1.5 yard line, rather than 1st and goal from the 1. Unless there’s some dispute about the offside call as well. I’m not saying any of this to take the ref off the hook for making a bad call, I’m just saying that in this specific case the bad call didn’t really affect the game. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/512195.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/512195.md?page=8)