# NFL Week 4 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 30, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/733075 "2015-09-30T20:15:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/733075/41 "2015-10-05T16:23:46Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > This is (mostly) incorrect. There are seven on-field officials in NFL games, as there have been for decades (the side judge was added in 1978). The NFL experimented with an eighth official in preseason games in 2010 and 2011, and a number of college conferences have gone to an 8-official system in recent years. > > However, the NFL did move the umpire into the offensive backfield in 2010 (prior to that, the umpire was located on the defensive side of the ball, and he moves back into that position late in the half). But, as that change happened several seasons ago, it’s unlikely to be the primary cause of the increase in holding calls this season. Seems the eight official system is standard cross all FBS for NCAA this year. But I know Sal Paolantonio said there was an additional NFL official starting 2015. He went on a whole rant about more holding calls and the run game suffering. Can’t find anything to back that up, but perhaps you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/733075/42 "2015-10-05T16:28:35Z")
The Eagles are only -8 in total points this year… It’s not like they are the 49ers (-62) or the Bears (-57)! ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/733075/43 "2015-10-05T17:12:25Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > The Eagles are only -8 in total points this year… It’s not like they are the 49ers (-62) or the Bears (-57)! Right, and they’re in the midst of a sustained run of excellence as a franchise. Since 1988, they’ve had 18 winning seasons to just 6 losing ones (with three 8-8s). Probably a little shortsighted to shit-can the team for incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/733075/44 "2015-10-05T21:04:50Z")
The only good thing about the Lions Season is that Suh is busy sucking in Miami rather than here for $8000000000000000 ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/733075/45 "2015-10-06T03:36:19Z")
Has anyone seen the end of the Seahawks/Lions game? I thought something weird was going on when they called a touchback with the fumble near the endzone. Turns out that ball was illegally batted out of the endzone and it should’ve been a penalty on the Seahawks, Lions’ ball at the half-yard line, 1st and goal. HOLY CRAP! ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/733075/46 "2015-10-06T03:36:45Z")
Eagles kicker leaves four points on the table and the Redskins win by three. Finally, some good karma. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/733075/47 "2015-10-06T04:11:16Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > Has anyone seen the end of the Seahawks/Lions game? I thought something weird was going on when they called a touchback with the fumble near the endzone. > > Turns out that ball was illegally batted out of the endzone and it should’ve been a penalty on the Seahawks, Lions’ ball at the half-yard line, 1st and goal. HOLY CRAP! Has anyone ever heard of that penalty having been called? How would they determine that it was done intentionally? ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/733075/48 "2015-10-06T04:29:05Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Has anyone ever heard of that penalty having been called? How would they determine that it was done intentionally? The retired referee in the studio explained it. Something like Rule 1204 subsection (c) or something. He said that if an opposing player knocks the ball out of their endzone intentionally, the ball remains in possession of the same team (Lions in this case) and half the distance to the goal. That would’ve put the ball six inches from the goal. From the replay, a Seahawks defender clearly smacked at the ball, knocking it behind the endzone. He had room to jump on it too. Gruden agreed and said, it’s a missed call. So did the other on-field announcers. This all happened after the game ended. They paused post-game reactions to report this. I guess the Lions could’ve challenged it too. Or maybe not? [Here’s the latest.](http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13819689/dean-blandino-end-zone-call-missed-vs-seahawks-lb-kj-wright) ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/733075/49 "2015-10-06T04:38:57Z")
What is the red flag rule at the end of the game? I thought the coach could not use it with less than 5 minutes left, or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/733075/50 "2015-10-06T04:43:43Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > What is the red flag rule at the end of the game? I thought the coach could not use it with less than 5 minutes left, or something like that. Head of the referees said this: > [@ESPN](#): > > Blandino, speaking to Monday Night Football after the game, said the batted ball part of the play is not reviewable, even though the play resulted in a turnover. Sometimes this game just seems so damn dumb with all these rules. 😃 But Lions coach said they’re not gonna cry about it. I would. The back judge was looking straight at it on the replay. Defender swiped at the ball, knocking it OOB. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/733075/51 "2015-10-06T14:47:00Z")
Chris Carter on Mike and Mike this morning speculated that the official who was looking right at the play did not know the rule even existed. The Seahawks player admitted to not knowing the rule, clearly or else he would not have done that. It was so obviously intentional that I think it’s possible the official, and perhaps all of the officials, didn’t realize what the rule was. If one official knew the rule you think they’d discuss it. Sucks for the Lions, but good for them for not whining about it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/733075/52 "2015-10-06T15:30:17Z")
The Fins fired Joe Philbin. Not that it’s likely to make much difference - even Vince Lombardi couldn’t take over midseason and get a bad team turned around immediately. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/733075/53 "2015-10-06T15:36:45Z")
The Dolphins trying to snatch that most dysfunctional NFL team crown away from the likes of Cleveland and Washington. Suh is doing his own thing on the D Line, not practicing in proper footwear. Tannehill has to talk shit to the scout team because they pick off too many of his passes. And those are the guys they \*just \*signed for big money! No coach is turning that around. Cleveland, meanwhile, had to explain to the NFL why Joe Haden went from probable to inactive in San Diego on Sunday. He had a broken finger, but was able to practice during the week. Coach Pettine says basically Joe didn’t want to play. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/733075/54 "2015-10-06T15:38:23Z")
Wow. If a guy doesn’t want to play, there’s a quick and easy fix for the problem. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/733075/55 "2015-10-06T16:13:31Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The Fins fired Joe Philbin. Not that it’s likely to make much difference - even Vince Lombardi couldn’t take over midseason and get a bad team turned around immediately. Not quite the same situation, but Jason Garrett took the Cowboys 5-3 after Wade Phillips started out 1-7. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/733075/56 "2015-10-06T16:54:34Z")
Obvious offseason fix to address both this debacle as well as clear up one of the weirdest rules in the NFL: a fumble that goes out of bounds in the endzone is retained by the offense at the point of the fumble. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/733075/57 "2015-10-06T17:23:23Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > Obvious offseason fix to address both this debacle as well as clear up one of the weirdest rules in the NFL: a fumble that goes out of bounds in the endzone is retained by the offense at the point of the fumble. Yeah, it’ll probably be on the table. I remember a game from a few years ago where something like this happened: Team A had the ball within their own 20 yard line, it got intercepted or fumbled, the team B player grabbed it, fumbled just before the goal line, and it rolled out the back. Result: Team A now had the ball on the 20, first down. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/733075/58 "2015-10-06T20:34:58Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Chris Carter on Mike and Mike this morning speculated that the official who was looking right at the play did not know the rule even existed. The Seahawks player admitted to not knowing the rule, clearly or else he would not have done that. It was so obviously intentional that I think it’s possible the official, and perhaps all of the officials, didn’t realize what the rule was. If one official knew the rule you think they’d discuss it. Sucks for the Lions, but good for them for not whining about it. Here’s what I don’t get - and yes it does impact the play. Why is it that if the offensive teams fumble out of the endzone the defense gets it as a touchback without ever getting possession of the fumble. The rule should be offense ball at the spot of the fumble. IF that were the rule then Seahawks fall on the ball and this is not an issue. Not to excuse the blown call (Vinnie Testaverde’s helmet) but karmically I’m at peace with it since with rational rules it would be Seahawks ball on the 20. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/733075/59 "2015-10-06T21:09:55Z")
Assuming that he could successfully gather the ball, then yes it would have been a touchback anyway. But as mentioned above, footballs have a habit of bouncing funny. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/733075/60 "2015-10-06T21:59:54Z")
[Well, this is kind of oddly written](http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/useofhands): \*A player may not bat or punch: (a) A loose ball (in field of play) toward his opponent’s goal line or in any direction in either end zone. (b) A ball in player possession. Note: If there is any question as to whether a defender is stripping or batting a ball in player possession, the official(s) will rule the action as a legal act (stripping the ball).\* So, what Kam Chancellor did was also illegal, except it was not :dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-4/733075.md?page=2)