# NFL Week 5 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 5, 2018, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/822466 "2018-10-05T01:44:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/822466/1 "2018-10-05T01:44:40Z")
Sorry, late with the thread. Thursday Indianapolis at New England (-10) Sunday early Baltimore at Cleveland – no line Jacksonville at Kansas City (-3) Tennessee (-3) at Buffalo New York Giants at Carolina (-6.5) Denver at New York Jets (-2.5) Atlanta at Pittsburgh – no line Green Bay (-1.5) at Detroit Miami at Cincinnati (-5.5) Sunday Late Oakland at Los Angeles Chargers (-6.5) Arizona at San Francisco (-4) Minnesota at Philadelphia (-3) Los Angeles Rams (-7) at Seattle SNF Dallas at Houston (-3.5) Monday, Oct. 8 MNF Washington at New Orleans (-7) What a bunch of shitty prime time games. And it’s not like they looked all that interesting in the preseason either. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/822466/2 "2018-10-05T02:15:59Z")
Moving from CS to Game Room. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/822466/3 "2018-10-05T02:46:16Z")
Woops, sorry, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/822466/4 "2018-10-05T07:00:53Z")
I am so not a fan of the trend over the last decade to schedule the Jets and Giants at the same time. That never used to happen, _ **ever** _, in the name of protecting home markets. Either the NFL no longer cares (fuck home markets!) or it’s a direct result of both teams sucking ass for years. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/822466/5 "2018-10-05T12:22:51Z")
“Extinction Games” It’s only week 5, but I see some must wins for a few teams. Oakland has to find a way to beat the Chargers on the road. They can start thinking about draft position. The Giants have to find a way to beat the Panthers on the road. Yeah, right. Arizona at Frisco is the “Sayounara Bowl”. Detroit needs to beat Rodgers and turn things around NOW. Let me know when you stop laughing. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/822466/6 "2018-10-05T12:25:31Z")
Checking out the box score from last night games. My God that is a lot of dogshit at the pass catching positions. Luck has guys like Chester Rodgers, Ryan Grant, Zach Pascal, and Erik Swope to throw to. Ugly. At least Brady has Gronk and some time until Edelman gets back to playing shape. Boy, that’s not good at all. ---
**Author:** ![Hi\_Neighbor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hi_neighbor/32/494_2.png) [@Hi\_Neighbor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Neighbor)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/822466/7 "2018-10-05T12:27:17Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Arizona at Frisco is the “Sayounara Bowl”. Feeling bad for Larry Fitz. He’s been banged up this year, but I have no doubt he could still put up decent numbers if he had a decent QB throwing to him. But history will look back and see a HUGE dropoff in production this year and people will say, “That was Fitz’s cliff year.” But really it was due to poor/non-existent QB play. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/822466/8 "2018-10-05T13:07:17Z")
QB safety has swung too far. The roughing call against Indy last night was a joke. I’ve said a few times and I really do mean it, just put flags on the QBs. You won’t get forced fumbles anymore, but as the Browns saw last week, they’re just going to blow the play dead as soon as the QB is wrapped up anyway. But you also won’t have ridiculous roughing calls. The line this morning is BAL -3 @ CLE. I don’t think the Ravens are really good as their 3-1 record and I don’t think the Browns are as bad as 1-2-1. I would have expected the Ravens to give up more based on records, but I think -3 is reasonable. The Browns could realistically go undefeated in October, or they could go winless. They have BAL, LAC, TB, Pit. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/822466/9 "2018-10-05T15:34:16Z")
Edelman’s back. Gronk appears healthy. Gordon has been staying clean (AFAWK) and is back to his 2013 self. Keep hating. The Pats feed on it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/822466/10 "2018-10-05T16:11:13Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > QB safety has swung too far. The roughing call against Indy last night was a joke. I’ve said a few times and I really do mean it, just put flags on the QBs. You won’t get forced fumbles anymore, but as the Browns saw last week, they’re just going to blow the play dead as soon as the QB is wrapped up anyway. But you also won’t have ridiculous roughing calls. It would be okay if it was consistent, but it’s not. I’ll repeat what I said in the previous thread (before this thread was started): Colts touch Brady’s helmet. Roughing the passer. Not exaggerating here. [Patriots Awarded Roughing The Passer Penalty After Colts Accidentally Touch Brady's Helmet](http://dailysnark.com/patriots-award)…-helmet-video/ Patriots dogpile on Luck. Brutal pile-on. No flag. [http://dailysnark.com/apparently-the...ng-a-qb-video/](http://dailysnark.com/apparently-the...ng-a-qb-video/) Seriously? Oh and these happened within minutes of each other in the same game. Some of the most blatant bias I’ve seen in a game, they’re not even being subtle. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/822466/11 "2018-10-05T16:41:31Z")
Your links don’t work, they aren’t complete. You included the “…” in the URL. But I believe I saw both plays you are talking about and noted it as well. I think the hits to the head, no matter how trivial, are being enforced rather evenly. I wondered if the Pats would get called for not taking off their body weight when going to the ground. I think the fact that the former was a hit after the ball was released and the latter was a sack leads to the different calls. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/822466/12 "2018-10-05T16:59:46Z")
Poor Andrew Luck. An awesome QB on a completely depleted team. That must suck. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/822466/13 "2018-10-05T17:08:46Z")
Sorry, the links were fine in the original post but my copy-paste mangled them. > **[Patriots Awarded Roughing The Passer Penalty After Colts Accidentally Touch...](https://dailysnark.com/2018/10/04/patriots-awarded-roughing-the-passer-penalty-after-colts-accidentally-touch-bradys-helmet-video/)** > > During the 2nd quarter of Colts-Patriots on Thursday night, the Pats capped off a scoring drive catalyzed by a roughing the passer penalty on Indianapolis LB Najee Goode for touching Tom Brady’s helmet. Andrew Luck gets dogpiled by two Patriots... > **[Apparently The Body Weight Penalty Doesn't Count When It's The Patriots...](https://dailysnark.com/2018/10/04/apparently-the-body-weight-penalty-doesnt-count-when-its-the-patriots-sacking-a-qb-video/)** > > The NFL has been hard pressed about enforcing the rule of disallowing defenders to land on the quarterback with most or all of his bodyweight, but apparently that’s not the case when it happens in Foxboro. During the second quarter of Week 5’s TNF... Brady was not “hit” after the ball was released. His helmet was touched incidentally pretty much simultaneously with the ball being released. The player basically couldn’t avoid touching it and it looked like he tried to. Luck was slammed, and piled on, by two players simultaneously who crushed him pretty violently. It was brutal. How can anyone even try to justify that disparity? What is the purpose of these calls? It’s not player safety, or the results would have been reversed. And it’s not the refs being too sensitive about QBs or there would have been flags both times. I don’t know if the refs are random or favoring one side over the other, but I do know they aren’t properly enforcing NFL rules. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/822466/14 "2018-10-05T17:41:01Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > How can anyone even try to justify that disparity? Right now, player safety in the NFL means exactly one thing: Concussions. They care about head contact. Rib cages can go pound sand. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/822466/15 "2018-10-05T17:54:26Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Gordon has been staying clean (AFAWK) and is back to his 2013 self. Pats looked pretty good last night, but let’s not get carried away. Gordon has 4 receptions for 82 yards and 1 TD in two games with the Pats. Maybe not _quite_ his 2013 self yet… 😉 (2013: 87 receptions for 1,646 yards and 9 TDs). ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/822466/16 "2018-10-05T18:28:26Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Brady was not “hit” after the ball was released. His helmet was touched incidentally pretty much simultaneously with the ball being released. The player basically couldn’t avoid touching it and it looked like he tried to. It’s a point of emphasis in the rules - > [@](#): > > In covering the passer position, Referees will be particularly alert to fouls in which defenders impermissibly use the helmet and/or facemask to hit the passer, or use hands, arms, or other parts of the body to hit the passer forcibly in the head or neck area (see also the other unnecessary roughness rules covering these subjects). This has been called pretty regularly throughout the season, and against all teams AFIACT. The announcer on TV even said - they’ll call that every time. The biggest question is was it _forceful_, which admittedly it didn’t look very forceful. But they tend to err on the side of caution with hits to the head. On the Luck sack - > [@Atamasama](#): > > Luck was slammed, and piled on, by two players simultaneously who crushed him pretty violently. It was brutal. > [@](#): > > A rushing defender is prohibited from committing such intimidating and punishing acts as “stuffing” a passer into the ground or unnecessarily wrestling or driving him down after the passer has thrown the ball, even if the rusher makes his initial contact with the passer within the one-step limitation provided for in (a) above. When tackling a passer who is in a defenseless posture (e.g., during or just after throwing a pass), a defensive player must not unnecessarily or violently throw him down or land on top of him with all or most of the defender’s weight. Instead, the defensive player must strive to wrap up the passer with the defensive player’s arms and not land on the passer with all or most of his body weight. Different rules, different calls. There have been a few calls against this sort of thing this year and lots of push back from players and teams. Luck was in the process of being sacked, a very different scenario from hitting a QB in the act of throwing the ball. There was a call last week (?) about not shielding a QB being sacked from the player’s body weight, and it’s not clear if the NFL knows how to judge that. It may not be a rule that works in practice. Also, the above rule may not actually apply since Luck wasn’t passing. A sack is different than hitting a QB as he releases the ball. Luck had tucked the ball and stopped his throwing motion. Bottom line, I don’t think there was anything funky about the call on the hit to the head. The body weight on the QB thing has been called inconsistently this season and is still a point of controversy. I don’t think you can compare the two calls as an example of biased refereeing. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/822466/17 "2018-10-05T19:08:38Z")
I think I understand. They’re still bad calls, the Brady call because the helmet was barely touched and looked completely unintentional, the Luck call because “roughing” flags for putting weight on the QB have been thrown for much less this season. But I can see how they’re not necessarily equivalent to each other. A smart QB coach might instruct his players to lower the head when a tackler approaches. If all it takes is a light touch you’re basically immune to sacks if you can make that contact occur and it shouldn’t be difficult to. QBs already try to draw fouls as it is (usually tricking them into offside and neutral zone infractions) so that could be a new trick. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/822466/18 "2018-10-05T20:51:22Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Right now, player safety in the NFL means exactly one thing: Concussions. They care about head contact. Rib cages can go pound sand. The whole falling on a QB with your body weight rule seems to be the result of Aaron Rodgers’ broken collarbone. And there’s the Brady rule to protect the QB’s knees. So yeah, concussions are the main concern, but there are other measures to protect QBs specifically that go beyond head injuries. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/822466/19 "2018-10-05T21:45:24Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I think I understand. They’re still bad calls, the Brady call because the helmet was barely touched and looked completely unintentional BTW, intention on those penalties is not relevant. Same with all the player safety calls. The only “out” is if you are blocked into the passer or kicker. Otherwise you are expected to play in a way to avoid that contact. ---
**Author:** ![Monocracy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monocracy/32/4493_2.png) [@Monocracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monocracy)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/822466/20 "2018-10-06T14:02:24Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Brady was not “hit” after the ball was released. Yes he was. You linked to the video, watch it. Pause it if you need to. The ball was in the air when Brady was hit. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/822466.md?page=2)