# NFL Week 5 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 4, 2019, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/841238 "2019-10-04T01:38:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/841238/41 "2019-10-07T00:31:37Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Jesus fuck this Cowboys Packers game is horribly officiated. Both teams getting fucked by the refs, which I guess is kinda fair, but the officiating, as well as just bad play, has made this game a pain to waych. That mild slap to Dak Prescott’s helmet being called for Roughing the Passer is was pathetically awful. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/841238/42 "2019-10-07T00:57:35Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > That mild slap to Dak Prescott’s helmet being called for Roughing the Passer is was pathetically awful. Literally touching the QB’s helmet is a roughing penalty. An actual slap is pretty egregious. That’s not an awful penalty, it will be called every time if the officials see it. You can say the **rule** is awful, but the penalty was absolutely correct. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/841238/43 "2019-10-07T01:23:35Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Literally touching the QB’s helmet is a roughing penalty. That’s simply not true. “Referees will be particularly alert to fouls in which defenders impermissibly use the helmet and/or facemask to hit the passer, or use hands, arms, or other parts of the body to hit the passer forcibly in the head or neck area.” If we’re talking about the same play, the contact I saw was not near “forcible”. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/841238/44 "2019-10-07T01:53:44Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > That’s simply not true. > > “Referees will be particularly alert to fouls in which defenders impermissibly use the helmet and/or facemask to hit the passer, or use hands, arms, or other parts of the body to hit the passer forcibly in the head or neck area.” > > If we’re talking about the same play, the contact I saw was not near “forcible”. That is not the rule. > **[Patriots Awarded Roughing The Passer Penalty After Colts Accidentally Touch...](https://dailysnark.com/2018/10/04/patriots-awarded-roughing-the-passer-penalty-after-colts-accidentally-touch-bradys-helmet-video/)** > > During the 2nd quarter of Colts-Patriots on Thursday night, the Pats capped off a scoring drive catalyzed by a roughing the passer penalty on Indianapolis LB Najee Goode for touching Tom Brady’s helmet. Andrew Luck gets dogpiled by two Patriots... It does not have to be forcible, not these days. At least not the way the rule is enforced. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/841238/45 "2019-10-07T02:40:51Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > It does not have to be forcible, not these days. At least not the way the rule is enforced. Here’s the full quote from the NFL Rulebook: > [@](#): > > In covering the passer position, Referees will be particularly alert to fouls in which defenders impermissibly use the helmet and/or facemask to hit the passer, or use hands, arms, or other parts of the body to hit the passer forcibly in the head or neck area (see also the other unnecessary roughness rules covering these subjects). A defensive player must not use his helmet against a passer who is in a defenseless posture—for example, (1) forcibly hitting the passer’s head or neck area with the helmet or facemask, even if the initial contact of the defender’s helmet or facemask is lower than the passer’s neck, and regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the passer by encircling or grasping him; or (2) lowering the head and making forcible contact with any part of the helmet against any part of the passer’s body. This rule does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on a passer. While it may be enforced for marginal cases, the rules as I read it requires the hit to be _forcibly_ made. Neither this hit nor the one in the Pats game was forcible. It’s bad officiating, whether it’s common or not. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/841238/46 "2019-10-07T02:45:26Z")
Bills are 4-1!! ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/841238/47 "2019-10-07T04:20:58Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > While it may be enforced for marginal cases, the rules as I read it requires the hit to be _forcibly_ made. Neither this hit nor the one in the Pats game was forcible. It’s bad officiating, whether it’s common or not. But so much leeway is given to the referees that they can do that. This year they were calling holding penalties left and right. It was getting crazy and eventually Tom Brady publicly called them out on it, and then they started easing off. Apparently there’s a lot of wiggle room, depending on what is a “point of emphasis” in officiating. The rules weren’t changed, they just enforced them differently. In response to the CTE publicity they started getting really touchy about anything that involved a QB’s head. If you’ve watched many football games the last couple of seasons they have been pretty consistent about it. It is absolutely controversial and many people don’t like it. _I_ don’t like it. But that’s the NFL. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/841238/48 "2019-10-07T04:40:56Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Bills are 4-1!! And three of those wins were away games. The Bills’ remaining schedule has four games against teams that haven’t won a game this season and two games against teams that are currently 1-4. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/841238/49 "2019-10-07T11:05:49Z")
It turns out that the Chiefs really can’t defend against the run. Or that much against the pass when they have to worry about not being able to stop the run. And that Mahomes needs two ankles to work his magic. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/841238/50 "2019-10-07T11:22:51Z")
There have been some really entertaining games thus far. The Raiders are 3-2 with a really messed up difficult schedule. Their last three games were a road loss at Min and road wins at Indy and in London. Their next two are at GB and at Hou. If they can escape these 4-3 they look really good to get a wildcard place. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/841238/51 "2019-10-07T13:11:34Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > 1. I never thought I’d say it, but the Titans/Bills game is intriguing. Both teams have pretty good defenses (and inconsistent offenses), so hopefully it will be a good defensive game instead of a bad offensive one. I still have no respect for Josh Allen as an NFL QB, but I hope his head is OK. After a horrible week last week for Josh Allen, the coaches gave him a much easier, game-manager role this week and it paid off. His average intended air yards went from 13.4 last week, to just 3.8, second lowest in the NFL this week. Outside of one idiotic throw resulting in an interception (10 IAY), he made the easy, simple throws and won the game. Not an exciting game by any means, but some very good defensive play and a win for the Bills. > [@Hamlet](#): > > 1. Although I get a week off from the Dolphins floundering, I still have to hear about the horrid Jets (how does Adam Gase continue to get jobs?), the dysfunctional Washington team (Sorry fans, but the more pain for Daniel Snyder the better), and the Bengals. Washington fired Jay Gruden (it really isn’t his fault, but God forbid Snyder fire himself or his shitty GM), the Jets lose in predictable fashion, and the Bengals hang close, but lose again, this time to a previously unwinned team. Luckily, I didn’t watch any of these games. Woo Hoo. > [@Hamlet](#): > > 1. Did Detroit’s defensive gameplan against KC help set a blueprint (No, Reid will adjust, because that’s what he’s great at). Hmmmmm. While Mahommes stats looked good, the offense as a whole didn’t. The running game wasn’t good (I think the Damien Williams era won’t last long, and McCoy’s fumble was costly), and the loss of both Hill and Watkins make it hard to tell if it’s injuries or an adjustment thing. I’ll give it another week. > [@Hamlet](#): > > Is Kirk Cousins really that bad of a QB? (I didn’t think so, but he’s doing nothing to prove his critics wrong). 22 for 27, 306 yards, 2 td’s, and 0 int. Nice game. Against a very bad team, so I don’t think I’ll declare Kirk Cousins back just yet. > [@Hamlet](#): > > Will Jon Gruden assign the entire offensive line to stop Khalil Mack (he might have to. Although I don’t really blame Gruden for trading Mack; it sounds like it was a “we don’t have the money” owner caused things and they got great value for him). Mack was held mostly in check, surprisingly, but the Raiders tried almost everything in their power to throw this game away. Luckily for the Packers, the Bears, especially Chase Daniel, threw it back. > [@Hamlet](#): > > 1. The continued use of backup QB’s. Teddy Bridgewater, Chase Daniels, Kyle Allen, Luke Falk, Colt McCoy, Jacoby Brissett, and my current mancrush Garrett Minshew are all players I never thought I’d see this season. Outside of the really horrible teams with no support (Jets. Washington), they’ve been doing pretty well all things considered. Bridgewater looked very good, Minshew did also, and Allen, Brissett get wins despite being absolutely pedestrian. I didn’t expect Daniels to suck so much, but I’ll take it. > [@Hamlet](#): > > 1. Cowboys/Packers will be a fascinating test. Can the Packers D give up 300 yards rushing in one game? I was surprised how quickly the Cowboys gave up on the run. Granted the quick 14-0 deficit was bad, but the Packers have shown to be weak against the run, and to see one of the best in Zeke only get 12 carries was surprising to me. > [@Hamlet](#): > > Is Dak Prescott actually better than I thought or is beating up on the shittiest teams in the NFL (Dolphins, Washington, and the Giants) inflated his value (I hope so. I really want Jerry Jones to make him the highest paid player ever in the NFL)? Dak had some very nice passes (and some very nice pass catchers, but those 3 int’s killed this team. A lot of garbage time yardage too, which I hope inflates Dak’s value even more. C’mon Jerry, give the guy a ton of money. > [@Hamlet](#): > > Can Rodgers and LeFleur get more than a first quarter of greatness out of this offense, especially without Davante Adams? Should be a great game to watch. It was a great development to see an actual run game take the pressure off Rodgers. I did get the sense, however, the Rodgers is starting to get prickly about some of the play calling. Shouldn’t be a problem if the wins continue, but it could turn ugly. I’m also afraid the defense is too turnover reliant (they played extremely aggressively this game, getting beat deep too often), but I trust Pettine to get it done. Here’s hoping injuries don’t start to pile up. ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/841238/52 "2019-10-07T14:15:28Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Washington fired Jay Gruden . . . Yeah, I guess losing to the Patriots was the last straw. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/841238/53 "2019-10-07T14:29:25Z")
[The Skins Made Jay Gruden Come To The Office At 5 A.M. To Get Fired](https://deadspin.com/the-skins-made-jay-gruden-come-to-the-office-at-5-a-m-1838840771) > [@](#): > > Of the six coaches hired by Snyder, not one has finished with a winning record, and the team has finished last in its division eight times and third seven times. See a pattern? What’s wrong with this franchise wasn’t only or even mostly about Gruden. I don’t think a Snyder team will ever be good. Sell it to an owner who is willing to rename the team to something that not a racial slur (just call it the Warriors and leave the logos/colors the same) and who can hire competent coaches. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/841238/54 "2019-10-07T15:57:45Z")
So what do the Redskins do with QB? I assume Keenum is legit hurt, McCoy didn’t look good but he has been out since last season and a start against the Pats isn’t the way to get back on track. Haskins looked like a rookie when he relieved Keenum last week. And, do you really want your first round rookie starting behind that 0-line? Injuries have sucked. Guice didn’t last a game and AP has definitely lost a step since his renaissance last season. At TE, the ‘Skins were down both Vernon Davis and Jordan Reed and I highly doubt that either of them are exactly eager to return. Terry McLaurin has looked good in spots this season but was injured last week and didn’t look 100% against the Pats yesterday. I don’t think a new coach will turn the Redskins around. I think Jay Gruden probably let it be known that he was planning on joining his brother in Las Vegas next season. I haven’t seen much of the Raiders this season but they’re certainly not a dumpster fire as this ‘Skins team is. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/841238/55 "2019-10-07T16:21:26Z")
Is Snyder just trolling by hiring Bill Callahan as the interim head coach? I assume it’s only temporary until he can hire Zac Taylor or whoever. Having a Monday Night game following your Bye week is excruciating. At least it’s fun knowing both the Cowboys and Rams have lost twice since the 49ers played their last game. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/841238/56 "2019-10-07T19:15:06Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Is Snyder just trolling by hiring Bill Callahan as the interim head coach? I assume it’s only temporary until he can hire Zac Taylor or whoever. > > Having a Monday Night game following your Bye week is excruciating. At least it’s fun knowing both the Cowboys and Rams have lost twice since the 49ers played their last game. I bet they didn’t like seeing the Browns soundly beating the Ravens on the road though. They’re not playing the Rams or Cowboys tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/841238/57 "2019-10-08T01:45:20Z")
I wonder what’s up with Baker Mayfield. I dont think last year was just a fluke, but he’s seriously regressed this season and I’d having a horrible start to this game. I wonder what’s up with him. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/841238/58 "2019-10-08T01:52:58Z")
The 49ers are dominating. It’s sure fun to watch, but will the other shoe drop? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/841238/59 "2019-10-08T02:49:43Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > The 49ers are dominating. It’s sure fun to watch, but will the other shoe drop? I’m pretty sure one of the Niners intercepted the other shoe. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/841238/60 "2019-10-08T03:22:51Z")
New OC has a terrible scheme for Mayfield. Mayfield excelled last year on fast developing plays and quick hitters. This year, half the called plays are plays where every route is slow developing and his first read isn’t even for 2-3 seconds into the play. He’s still nailing those fast reads like quick slants but they’re trying to make him sit behind a bad O-line for 3+ seconds every play before trying to get rid of the ball. The offenses look completely different. There are probably other, less obvious things at work like different decision trees and blocking schemes. Why you’d hire Kitchens as head coach because you think he’s an up and coming offensive guru, but then hire an OC from totally outside his system to run his own offense makes no sense at all to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/841238.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-5/841238.md?page=4)