# NFL Week 6 - Now With Ranting! **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 16, 2009, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-6-now-with-ranting/513974 "2009-10-16T00:46:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-6-now-with-ranting/513974/201 "2009-10-20T04:07:49Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > The real problem with Super Bowl XL, and the reason why this persists today, is that you had two dipshits in the booth who dislike the Steelers, and gave the impression that things were unfairly called. One of them is still in the booth and still bringing it up on occasion. Bollocks. The real problem with Super Bowl XL is that it was horribly officiated. It’s very, very rare that I watch a game and think, “those officials did a bad job”. I watched that game and wondered why those officials _had_ a job. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-6-now-with-ranting/513974/202 "2009-10-20T04:35:27Z")
Stupid Chargers. :(:smack::(:smack:☹ ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-6-now-with-ranting/513974/203 "2009-10-20T04:56:44Z")
_sings_ _San Dee-ay-go, stupid Chargers…_ Hey, has a nice ring to it. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-6-now-with-ranting/513974/204 "2009-10-20T07:21:58Z")
I noticed in the MNF game, there was a close call with a first down measurement, and the ref bent down and really made sure he got a good look at it… ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-6-now-with-ranting/513974/205 "2009-10-20T11:43:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No it isn’t. That [the illegal block on Hasselbeck] was unquestionably the worst call I have seen in any sport, ever. Well I think that’s an overstatement in any case, but I suppose it depends on just what the rule is. If the refs are supposed to throw the flag when a player dives and tackles low but, in the process, also hits a blocker, then it’s totally understandable how the mistake was made; at full speed, it sort of looked like Hasselbeck made contact (especially if one didn’t have a perfect angle). If the refs are not supposed to throw the flag on a successful tackle that also hits a blocker, then, yes, it was 100% egregious. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-6-now-with-ranting/513974/206 "2009-10-20T12:41:17Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > The offensive PI called against Darrell Jackson in the end zone was a joke. That call is _never_ (well, obviously, not “never,” but you know what I mean) made on that degree of contact in the NFL. Obviously, if you’re watching through black-and-gold-colored glasses, it looks like PI, but from a disinterested perspective if that was offensive PI than about eighty percent of completed passes in the NFL come on uncalled offensive pass interference. This call directly turned seven points into four. A receiver will never be allowed to push a defender backwards. I don’t know what you’re watching if you think otherwise. Also, there is no four point play in football. > [@](#): > > The Locklear hold was a terrible call. TERRIBLE call. I see someone downthread defending it, but again, the contact was passing and minor and I see absolutely no way to argue that Hasselbeck would have been sacked in the absence of that contact. The only way you say any of that is if you only ever saw the Madden and Michaels show. If they show a replay that doesn’t show the play in question, and then proclaim that it didn’t happen, it kind of leaves a false impression. Is that the only time you saw it? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-6-now-with-ranting/513974/207 "2009-10-20T13:31:33Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Also, there is no four point play in football. You’re forgetting the rare and mysterious double safety. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-6-now-with-ranting/513974/208 "2009-10-20T13:54:46Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > A receiver will never be allowed to push a defender backwards. I don’t know what you’re watching if you think otherwise. > > Also, there is no four point play in football. Look, I’m not going to get into a pissing match with you on who knows more about football. You’re welcome to believe that it was obvious and blatant PI, and that it was called that way throughout the game and is called that way throughout the league. I disagree. In fact, every single person to whom I’ve spoken about the game, other than the Steelers fans, disagrees. I understand bias - Lord knows I’ve never seen an undeserved penalty called against a _Giants’_ opponent - but if you can’t view the fact that virtually every non-Steelers fan who saw the game thinks it was a bad call as evidence that you just might - _might_ - be biased by your fandom, then you’re not being realistic. I’m watching the play right now, frame-by-frame, and it’s reminding me of something I had forgotten before. Jackson breaks toward the center of the field, toward Hope. Hope _initiates_ contact with Jackson, putting his hand in the center of Jackson’s chest to stop the latter’s movement. Jackson puts his own hand out, contacts Hope in more or less exactly the same way Hope contacted him. Both guys have their hands on one another, neither is interfering. How is Jackson interfering but Hope is not? Then Jackson breaks back the other way. Touchdown. Oh, and Ha Ha! You caught a typo! You win the thread! > [@](#): > > The only way you say any of that is if you only ever saw the Madden and Michaels show. If they show a replay that doesn’t show the play in question, and then proclaim that it didn’t happen, it kind of leaves a false impression. Is that the only time you saw it? You know what? You’ve convinced yourself that this whole thing is because everyone else is too stupid to actually see what’s going on, so: _sure._ That’s all I ever saw. I’m not going to convince you, and you’re certainly not going to convince me, so what’s the point of this, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-6-now-with-ranting/513974/209 "2009-10-20T13:57:55Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > Look, I’m not going to get into a pissing match with you on who knows more about football. You’re welcome to believe that it was obvious and blatant PI, and that it was called that way throughout the game and is called that way throughout the league. I disagree. Yes, but you’re arguing that it was obviously and blatantly _not_ pass interference, or at least shouldn’t have been called as such. You can’t very well get on him for believing his interpretation is the One True Call when you’re doing the same thing. For what it’s worth, I don’t really remember the play, and considering I was _screaming_ at the referees throughout that game that suggests that it was a marginal call either way. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-6-now-with-ranting/513974/210 "2009-10-20T13:59:52Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yes, but you’re arguing that it was obviously and blatantly _not_ pass interference, or at least shouldn’t have been called as such. You can’t very well get on him for believing his interpretation is the One True Call when you’re doing the same thing. Fair enough. Why are you being reasonable in a sports thread? You’re ruining my buzz. \ ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-6-now-with-ranting/513974/211 "2009-10-20T14:29:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > For what it’s worth, I don’t really remember the play, and considering I was _screaming_ at the referees throughout that game that suggests that it was a marginal call either way. It was a marginal call. By the rules, it could have been considered pass interference. But if that kind of act is called pass interference, there should be at least a 4 or 5 flags thrown for the exact same thing every game. This last Sunday, for example, I saw Donald Driver, Dennis Northcutt, Greg Jennings, Desmond Clark, Greg Olson, and others do almost the exact same thing, without getting flagged. The fact it was flagged in the Super Bowl and it happened to go, shock of shocks, against the Seahawks like almost all of the other marginal calls, was just sad for the game of football. ---
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-6-now-with-ranting/513974/212 "2009-10-20T14:34:38Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > Stupid Chargers. :(:smack::(:smack:☹ I don’t know if they’re _stupid_, really. They just got outplayed in every facet of the game. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-6-now-with-ranting/513974/213 "2009-10-20T14:45:01Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > In fact, every single person to whom I’ve spoken about the game, other than the Steelers fans, disagrees. I understand bias - Lord knows I’ve never seen an undeserved penalty called against a _Giants’_ opponent - but if you can’t view the fact that virtually every non-Steelers fan who saw the game thinks it was a bad call as evidence that you just might - _might_ - be biased by your fandom, then you’re not being realistic. Everyone? Here’s how King Kaufman of Salon describes himself: > [@](#): > > I don’t mean to come off sounding like a Steelers fan, defending the legitimacy of my team’s win. I had no rooting interest in the game, and when that’s the case I tend to root for West Coast teams that aren’t the San Francisco 49ers (personal issues there), and underdogs, which means Seattle twice. But I honestly found myself not caring who won as I watched the game. Here’s his take on the push-off: > [@](#): > > Here’s what happened: Hope was covering Jackson as he tried to get open in the end zone while quarterback Matt Hasselbeck scrambled. They ended up momentarily standing still, facing the line of scrimmage. After a little hand fighting – perfectly legitimate by both men – Jackson reacted to the throw by planting his right hand on the front of Hope’s shoulder pads and extending his arm. > > Hope was straightened up by the push, and actually took a little hop in the opposite direction from the force of it. That allowed Jackson to get separation – the very definition of a pushoff. Here’s his take on the holding: > [@](#): > > Was that holding? Well, with apologies to John Madden, who said he didn’t see Locklear clamping down on Clark Haggans’ arm, yeah. Was it the kind of holding penalty that gets ignored all the time? Absolutely. It was also the kind that gets called all the time. Haggans had beaten Locklear to the outside, and had a clear path to the quarterback when he was pulled off-balance by the blocker. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-6-now-with-ranting/513974/214 "2009-10-20T14:50:47Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > snipped As I said in my very first post on the subject, I consider it arguable but possible that both the PI and the holding call were within the strict definition of the penalties in question. The point is what **Hamlet** has just said much more concisely: if that’s how it’s going to be called, it should be called like that the entire game, and certainly should be called like that _on both teams._ Which it was not. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-6-now-with-ranting/513974/215 "2009-10-20T15:18:55Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > As I said in my very first post on the subject, I consider it arguable but possible that both the PI and the holding call were within the strict definition of the penalties in question. The point is what **Hamlet** has just said much more concisely: if that’s how it’s going to be called, it should be called like that the entire game, and certainly should be called like that _on both teams._ Which it was not. It wasn’t? Which push-offs or holdings weren’t called? Were there more for the Steelers or Seahawks? By your argument, it sounds like no team ever actually commits more penalties than the other team. I don’t see how that could be true. Also, there are examples of calls that should have been made against the Seahawks that weren’t, such as the block in the back on the return of Roethlisberger’s interception. Also, Locklear was among the most penalized in the league, IIRC, so should there be some artificial deflation of the impact of his abilities or lack thereof on the Super Bowl by not calling his holding or by “equalizing” it in some way? ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-6-now-with-ranting/513974/216 "2009-10-20T15:25:38Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No it isn’t. That was unquestionably the worst call I have seen in any sport, ever. No way. The worst call I have seen in any sport, ever, was when they overturned Polamalu’s interception, just two games before that one. It was ruled correctly on the field. Then it was overturned. On review. Against any possible interpretation of the rules. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-6-now-with-ranting/513974/217 "2009-10-20T15:33:36Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > It wasn’t? Which push-offs or holdings weren’t called? Were there more for the Steelers or Seahawks? I watched the whole game. Close, borderline, ticky-tack stuff was called against the Seahawks, and _not_ called against the Steelers. It’s really that simple. I could go play by play here, but that would be boring and pointless, because it all hinges on subjective assessments and we’re not going to agree on them, ever. > [@](#): > > By your argument, it sounds like no team ever actually commits more penalties than the other team. I don’t know how you’re getting that from what I’m saying. I’m saying that the definition of a penalty should be the same for each team. I’m saying that if Darrell Jackson brushes his hand against Chris Hope and Chris Hope brushes his hand against Darrell Jackson, then either they’ve both committed interference or neither of them has. And if it’s interference when Jackson does it, then it’s interference when Hines Ward or Terrell Owens or Lance Alworth does it. And if it’s not interference in most situations, but it suddenly _becomes_ interference when it obliterates a Seattle touchdown, then it looks hinky. And if something that isn’t usually called a hold, that hasn’t been called a hold all day, suddenly _becomes_ a hold when it obliterates _another_ Seattle touchdown, then that looks even hinkier. And then when the officials hand 15 yards to Pittsburgh because a Seattle player had the temerity to _make a legal tackle,_ it looks really bad. A great example of the sort of thing I mean is the ridiculous call at second base the other day in the Yankees- Angels game. In case you missed it, the Los Angeles infielder was trying to turn a double play, and his foot didn’t contact second base. Now, under a strict reading of the rules, this means the runner coming from first should be safe. However: 1. It’s standard practice for umpires to apply a sort of “neighborhood” rule, basically to protect the infielder from getting murdered; 2. There was no indication that the customary “neighborhood” rule would not be in effect for this series. When the umpires decided to abruptly call the game according to the strictest possible interpretation of the rules, in midstream and to the benefit of one team, that raised eyebrows and irritation. And that was in _one instance._ If, later in the same inning, the umpires started calling “on the black” pitches balls when the Yankees were at bat but strikes when the Angels were at bat, and then blatantly missed a call at home plate also favoring the Yankees… well, people would talk. > [@](#): > > Also, Locklear was among the most penalized in the league, IIRC, so should there be some artificial deflation of the impact of his abilities or lack thereof on the Super Bowl by not calling his holding or by “equalizing” it in some way? No. Holding should be called the same for all players. Whether Locklear is frequently penalized for holding or not has no bearing on a judgment of whether he was holding on that play. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-6-now-with-ranting/513974/218 "2009-10-20T16:17:19Z")
A few hours before the trade deadline the Patriots [released](http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=4579557) Joey Galloway, a week before their trip to London to face his former team. Probably not important for the Pats since he wasn’t being used and Aiken and Edelman have really emerged ahead of him. It will be interesting to see which WR poor teams give him a look, you have to imagine that he’ll have a job sooner than later. Where’s he gonna land? Washington? Carolina? Jacksonville? San Fransisco? Oakland? Kansas City? St. Louis? Detroit? Tennessee? Cleveland? About 4 more hours until the deadline, probably won’t see any additional moves but it’s always interesting to wonder. I’ll be keeping an eye on it anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-6-now-with-ranting/513974/219 "2009-10-20T17:09:09Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I’ve always been of the opinion that it’s completely ok to run up the score anyway. This isn’t peewee confidence building football. This is grown-ass man football. Don’t like getting scored on? Stop it. Now don’t go showboating and dancing and whatnot after a score, but no reason to stop playing. Yeah, they’re professionals. I mean, making seven figures a year, heck, making even six figures a year is enough to get over the pain of losing by a wide margin. This isn’t Miami (Florida) scoring seventy points against South Brevard County Teacher’s College. And Bellichek, well he wasn’t quite apologetic afterwards, but at least justified the passing in the fourth quarter: He said more or less "It’s not like we wanted to run up the score, but after we put in our second string QB, we had to use this chance to get him experience, so we had to run our regular offense. It wouldn’t be much good to have him hand off up the middle thirty times. " And if there’s someone in the league who knows how important it might be later in the season to have a solid back-up QB, I think it’s Bellichek. [Disclosure: I live in New England.] ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-6-now-with-ranting/513974/220 "2009-10-20T17:23:44Z")
> [@quixotic78](#): > > I don’t know if they’re _stupid_, really. They just got outplayed in every facet of the game. I wouldn’t say _every_ facet of the game–the offenses were pretty even throughout. It was just our crappy defense and the porous offensive line that killed us. What’s the record for sacks (receiving) in a season? Cause I gotta believe we’ve got a chance to break it. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-6-now-with-ranting/513974.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-6-now-with-ranting/513974.md?page=12)