# NFL Week 8 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 30, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-8/515679 "2009-10-30T00:57:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-8/515679/141 "2009-11-05T00:20:00Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Was anyone else as disgusted by Rex Ryan’s postgame rationalization as the NY media? He had the gall to claim that the Jets outplayed Miami because they beat them in yards from scrimmage. WTF? The NY media has (rightfully, IMO) crucified him for this. > > Anyone agree with him? And yeah, there’s a gotcha coming. It would depend on exactly what he said, I suppose. I mean, it would probably be fair to say that the Jets outplayed Miami on offense and defense, while getting outplayed on special teams \*usually \*doesn’t mean quite as much as it did on Sunday. That said, not the classiest approach in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-8/515679/142 "2009-11-05T00:30:29Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Eh, it’s not completely absurd. For example, when I do my Picks next week I’ll be taking note of the fact that the Jets defense did perform pretty well against a solid offense. Offensively they also played well enough to win. Giving away 21 points on returns is inexcusable but in some ways it’s a bit of a crap shoot. I don’t think it’s likely that it will happen again and I’m willing to give Rex a little credit for adjusting after the ass whipping in the first game and if they’d have tackled Ted Ginn there’s a pretty good chance they’d have won the game. > > I’m not ready to kill a guy for not reading from the stupid coaches script in a presser and sharing an actual opinion or emotion. If the Dolphins had tackled Thomas Jones… The point is that the Jets _didn’t_ tackle Ted Ginn (and the second touchdown was a marvelous individual effort, I might add) - and Miami’s offensive numbers would almost certainly look a little better would probably look a lot better if they had three additional offensive possessions. However, since the Jets didn’t tackle Ted Ginn (or the defender who returned a fumble for a score), the 'phins did not have those possessions. Keep in mind that the Dolphins (stupidly) drafted Ginn based as much on his return ability as on his pass-catching skills. Would the Jets have complained if the Dolphins had drafted Dwayne Bowe and he caught two touchdown passes? “We outplayed them in every area except covering Dwayne Bowe,” maybe? A freaking NFL head coach should know that football involves three phases, not two. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-8/515679/143 "2009-11-05T00:42:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If the Dolphins had tackled Thomas Jones… > > The point is that the Jets _didn’t_ tackle Ted Ginn (and the second touchdown was a marvelous individual effort, I might add) - and Miami’s offensive numbers would almost certainly look a little better would probably look a lot better if they had three additional offensive possessions. However, since the Jets didn’t tackle Ted Ginn (or the defender who returned a fumble for a score), the 'phins did not have those possessions. > > Keep in mind that the Dolphins (stupidly) drafted Ginn based as much on his return ability as on his pass-catching skills. Would the Jets have complained if the Dolphins had drafted Dwayne Bowe and he caught two touchdown passes? “We outplayed them in every area except covering Dwayne Bowe,” maybe? > > A freaking NFL head coach should know that football involves three phases, not two. I agree for the most part. Us Bears fans are abundantly aware what Special Teams and Defensive scores can do for you. However I think it’s utterly silly to tar and feather Ryan over this. Certainly he takes the blame for those Special Teams scores but Special Teams TDs have a larger proportion of luck involved than your average offensive play. The Dolphins were held to 2.3 yard per carry and 2.4 yards per passing attempt. The Jets had 3.2 ypc and 7.2 ypa in comparison. Those are very decisive margins and there’s little reason to assume that the Dolphins would have been dramatically more efficient given an extra 25 plays (they ran 45 afterall). Rex Ryan might be overstating the case when he says “outplayed” but if the Jets and Dolphins play 10 times I don’t think Ted Ginn is scoring more than 3 times on returns and if they two teams perform the same way as they did in the game the Jets probably win 8 of those 10. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-8/515679/144 "2009-11-05T00:47:46Z")
Keep in mind that the Jets and Dolphins as currently constituted have played twice in four weeks and the Dolphins won both games. 45 plays is not a statistically significant sample, and there’s no way to know if they 46th play would have been a 75-yard touchdown pass. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-8/515679/145 "2009-11-05T00:54:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > 45 plays is not a statistically significant sample. . . Well it’s a lot more significant than 6 kickoff returns. Again, that’s not to say that the special teams results were nothing but luck or that the Jets “deserved” to win – they’re not and they didn’t. It’s just that the results of all those offensive and defensive snaps would be a lot more likely to repeat themselves than the results of the relatively small number of kickoff returns. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-8/515679/146 "2009-11-05T01:13:57Z")
True - but Rex Ryan still needs to shut the hell up. I actually didn’t care about it that much until I posted to this thread, and then I thought about it, and realized it’s the dumbest thing I’ve heard anyone in the NFL not named Larry Johnson say all year. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-8/515679/147 "2009-11-05T01:16:47Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > True - but Rex Ryan still needs to shut the hell up. I actually didn’t care about it that much until I posted to this thread, and then I thought about it, and realized it’s the dumbest thing I’ve heard anyone in the NFL not named Larry Johnson say all year. 😕 It’s not even close. Someone says something like this just about every single week. It was said numerous times by people around the Bears organization following the Atlanta loss for example, though not the head coach. Of all the people who have ever made this very common statement, I can think of none more justified than Rex Ryan based on the numbers and the way the game played out. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-8/515679/148 "2009-11-05T01:18:14Z")
I’ve never heard any NFL coach claim to have outplayed the other team following a loss, and I watch the postgame pressers religiously. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-8/515679/149 "2009-11-05T02:05:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’ve never heard any NFL coach claim to have outplayed the other team following a loss, and I watch the postgame pressers religiously. Most coaches don’t say anything of substance. Some are more diplomatic and blame the officials or bad luck, but it amounts to the same thing. It doesn’t make a ton of sense to kill Ryan for pointing out that his team dominated the box score in a game they lost. He might not have been properly diplomatic about it, but who gives a shit, it’s nice to have someone worth listening to. I’d rather a guy put his foot in his mouth on occasion than be bored to tears by Lovie Smith’s evasions and insincerity. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-8/515679/150 "2009-11-05T03:54:59Z")
I have no problem with a coach blaming the referees, luck, the weather, el nino or Barack Obama. However, denigrating the other team’s performance is inappropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-8/515679/151 "2009-11-05T04:00:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I have no problem with a coach blaming the referees, luck, the weather, el nino or Barack Obama. However, denigrating the other team’s performance is inappropriate. I think you have a hate-on for Ryan. Nothing about that presser was anywhere close to denigrating. He hardly refers to the Dolphins at all in the clips I’ve seen. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-8/515679/152 "2009-11-05T04:07:43Z")
I liked him fine until now, for what it’s worth. If anything, I’ve been rooting for the Jets this year since I do have a hate-on for Favre. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-8/515679/153 "2009-11-05T14:04:22Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What, are you nuts? Boldin scored 11 times in half a season last year. No reason he can’t do it again when he’s healthy, especially considering that Fitzgerald is now considered the Cards’ de facto #1. Then let him ride the pine, hoping he’ll pan out. I have him on one of my fantasy teams, I just don’t think the dude has it anymore. I won’t start him. He’s old, injured and a malcontent. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-8/515679/154 "2009-11-05T14:08:28Z")
He turned 29 a month ago, and he’s arguably the most underpaid player in the league. ---
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-8/515679/155 "2009-11-05T14:46:17Z")
I think Boldin reminds him too much of Hines Ward. 😛 I don’t know anything about fantasy football but I’d take Anquan Boldin on any real football team anytime. He’s sacrificing his body and wants to be paid for it; we’d all do the same. Put that man in an Eagles uniform and see how much they’d love him. You don’t appreciate a guy like that until you find your team without one and struggling to convert third-and-eights all the time. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-8/515679/156 "2009-11-05T14:49:26Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > He turned 29 a month ago, and he’s arguably the most underpaid player in the league. He’s hurt… every…year (or so it seems). Look, I was excited as the next guy to have him, I play in autopick draft leagues, but so far this season, he hasn’t done shit. Now, that may speak more to Arizona’s offensive woes than it does to Boldin’s lack of production, but at the end of the day, it hardly matters. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-8/515679/157 "2009-11-05T14:50:54Z")
> [@HongKongFooey](#): > > I think Boldin reminds him too much of Hines Ward. 😛 > > I don’t know anything about fantasy football but I’d take Anquan Boldin on any real football team anytime. He’s sacrificing his body and wants to be paid for it; we’d all do the same. Put that man in an Eagles uniform and see how much they’d love him. You don’t appreciate a guy like that until you find your team without one and struggling to convert third-and-eights all the time. Nobody, but NOBODY reminds me of Hines Ward! Other than my pal Keith Rivers, who has a personal stake in the matter… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-8/515679/158 "2009-11-05T15:19:29Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > He’s hurt… every…year (or so it seems). Look, I was excited as the next guy to have him, I play in autopick draft leagues, but so far this season, he hasn’t done shit. Now, that may speak more to Arizona’s offensive woes than it does to Boldin’s lack of production, but at the end of the day, it hardly matters. When healthy, he has the potential to be the most valuable fantasy wideout in the league. He was, in fact, through 9-odd games last year. That means, absent some sort of catastrophic injury (or an injury to Warner), he’s worth a roster spot. It’s not like his leg is broken. It’s just a high-ankle sprain. ETA: He’s missed 4 games in each of the last two seasons, plus 6 games in '04, so yes, he gets injured a lot - but it’s not like it’s the same bum knee every time. Last year it was a broken face, basically, and a hamstring pull. The year before it was a hip injury. In '04 it was a shoulder injury. That’s not “injury-prone”, that’s just bad luck. ---
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-8/515679/159 "2009-11-05T15:31:49Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Last year it was a broken face, basically… What kind of pansy misses time for a broken face after being violently sandwiched anyway? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-8/515679/160 "2009-11-05T15:43:25Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > When healthy, he has the potential to be the most valuable fantasy wideout in the league. He was, in fact, through 9-odd games last year. That means, absent some sort of catastrophic injury (or an injury to Warner), he’s worth a roster spot. > > It’s not like his leg is broken. It’s just a high-ankle sprain. > > ETA: He’s missed 4 games in each of the last two seasons, plus 6 games in '04, so yes, he gets injured a lot - but it’s not like it’s the same bum knee every time. Last year it was a broken face, basically, and a hamstring pull. The year before it was a hip injury. In '04 it was a shoulder injury. That’s not “injury-prone”, that’s just bad luck. All I’m saying is, that as a fantasy owner, you’re week to week. Perhaps I was hasty in advising someone to dump him in favor of Mike Wallace (who’s going to get his neck broken two Sundays from today), but still…Boldin has been a fantasy BUST \*so far \*this season, and I see little reason that is going to change. Arizona will not be this year’s NFC darlings. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-8/515679.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-8/515679.md?page=9)