# NFL Week 9 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 3, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-9/639782 "2012-11-03T18:43:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-9/639782/101 "2012-11-06T19:12:15Z")
A bad owner is the worst thing you can wish on a rival franchise. Bad draft and trade choices can be overcome within a few years. Injuries recover or are replaced, often within a season. Bad coaches are fired within a year or two of no results. Even a lackluster fan base can be re-energized with a winning program. But an owner’s tenure can last for decades… and decades. And then, if they have interested family… I freakin’ hate Jerry Jones. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-9/639782/102 "2012-11-06T20:38:21Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > A bad owner is the worst thing you can wish on a rival franchise. Bad draft and trade choices can be overcome within a few years. Injuries recover or are replaced, often within a season. Bad coaches are fired within a year or two of no results. Even a lackluster fan base can be re-energized with a winning program. > > But an owner’s tenure can last for decades… and decades. And then, if they have interested family… > > I freakin’ hate Jerry Jones. Any team that has the audacity to market itself as “America’s team” deserves an owner like Jerry Jones. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-9/639782/103 "2012-11-06T20:42:29Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Any team that has the audacity to market itself as “America’s team” deserves an owner like Jerry Jones. During Aaron Rodgers segment on 60 Minutes it was mentioned that the Packers have the advantage of not having an owner who knows crap about football but still insists making team decisions simply cause he can. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-9/639782/104 "2012-11-06T21:33:22Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Any team that has the audacity to market itself as “America’s team” deserves an owner like Jerry Jones. I think that moniker was applied to them more than coined by them. [ESPN Blogs](http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/6329/the-great-debate-america-s-team) seems to agree, noting that several teams could vie for the title: > [@](#): > > The Cowboys, Steelers, Packers and Patriots can all make a legitimate claim to the title of “America’s Team.” [ESPN.com](http://ESPN.com)’s Matt Mosley, James Walker, Kevin Seifert, and Tim Graham debate each team’s case. Sounds like it’s not a copyrighted trademark exclusive. The [Cowboys’ Website](http://www.dallascowboys.com/index.html) doesn’t use the term that I can find. > [@](#): > > In putting together a highlights video for the 1978 Dallas Cowboys, NFL Films needed a catchy name. Then editor-in-chief Bob Ryan is credited with coining the phrase “America’s Team.” > > Cowboys coach Tom Landry resisted the title early on because he thought it would provide opposing teams with even more incentive to knock off the Cowboys. But the incomparable marketing genius, Tex Schramm, the club’s president, fell in love with the title and was delighted when it was mentioned during a CBS telecast at the start of the 1979 season. > > But the Cowboys’ remarkable playoff consistency during the Landry era helped justify them as “America’s Team,” while Schramm took care of the marketing side by making sure the Cowboys played in the marquee games such as on Thanksgiving Day and “Monday Night Football.” I think “America’s Idiots” would be a more fitting title. The article goes on to make the case for the Packers, Steelers, and Patriots as America’s Team, but doesn’t state that Dallas should be the sole contender. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-9/639782/105 "2012-11-06T23:01:44Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Any team that has the audacity to market itself as “America’s team” deserves an owner like Jerry Jones. And any team that has the proclivity to market themselves as America’s cheeseheads deserves to have laughing stock and [del] their shiny new 1.4 billion dollar stadium[/del] some quaint outlier of _“frozen tundra.”_ Like **Duke** aptly mentions, all things NFL Films. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-9/639782/106 "2012-11-06T23:16:26Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > Payton recently bought a house in Dallas. Dibs. The odds of any coach who has other options going to Dallas are about the same as the Saints hiring my grandmother to coach the team. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-9/639782/107 "2012-11-06T23:28:38Z")
Would you care to tell me where Sean was before New Orleans? Tell your granny practice is at 11:00. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-9/639782/108 "2012-11-06T23:31:22Z")
In Dallas, where he was a largely unknown coordinator. I mean head coaching candidates. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-9/639782/109 "2012-11-07T04:12:41Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Any team that has the audacity to market itself as “America’s team” deserves an owner like Jerry Jones. I see ignorance is alive and well in Wisconsin. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-9/639782/110 "2012-11-07T04:54:18Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Any team that has the audacity to market itself as “America’s team” deserves an owner like Jerry Jones. As been mentioned, this was amlqbel given to them, not created by them. I believe it was one of those end of season highlight reels. I’m almost positive it was an NFL Films production. But they have embraced it, and marketed the crap out of it. As for bad owners killing a foorball team, (or any sports team), Jerry Jones is a perfecr example. The Cowboys haven’t been relevant since the mid 90’s. And even though they have some talemt, it’s not Super Bowl talent. They won’t get into a Suoer Bowl again until Jones fires himself as GM. and we all know that isn’t happening. And when he dies, his kid willmtake over the team and destroy it even further. I hate the Cowboys, but i hated the Landry Cowboys, a great team. Hating the Cowboys now has more to do with Jerry Jones than any player or how good they are. They suck. Just like the entire NFC East, the most over-rated division in the NFL. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-9/639782/111 "2012-11-07T12:34:24Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > They suck. Just like the entire NFC East, the most over-rated division in the NFL. :dubious: The Giants have won two Super Bowls in 4 years. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-9/639782/112 "2012-11-07T13:05:55Z")
To the plethora of people, yes, I am completely aware that the term “America’s team” came from NFL films. Which is why I said: “Any team that has the audacity to **market itself** as “America’s team” deserves an owner like Jerry Jones”, rather than “Any team that has the audacity to **name** itself …”. And if you come in to try and convince anyone that the Cowboy’s don’t “market” themselves as America’s team, I suggest you check out the Dallas Cowboy’s “official” team history, a book which I’m guessing you could guess the title. [Here it is](http://www.amazon.com/Americas-Team-Official-History-Cowboys/dp/160887009X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352293343&sr=8-1&keywords=america%27s+team). ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-9/639782/113 "2012-11-07T13:51:22Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > As been mentioned, this was amlqbel given to them, not created by them. I believe it was one of those end of season highlight reels. I’m almost positive it was an NFL Films production. But they have embraced it, and marketed the crap out of it. > > As for bad owners killing a foorball team, (or any sports team), Jerry Jones is a perfecr example. The Cowboys haven’t been relevant since the mid 90’s. And even though they have some talemt, it’s not Super Bowl talent. They won’t get into a Suoer Bowl again until Jones fires himself as GM. and we all know that isn’t happening. And when he dies, his kid willmtake over the team and destroy it even further. I hate the Cowboys, but i hated the Landry Cowboys, a great team. Hating the Cowboys now has more to do with Jerry Jones than any player or how good they are. > > They suck. Just like the entire NFC East, the most over-rated division in the NFL. Dude, I was with you until this stinker. The NFC East is far from over-rated, historically it is the best division in the NFL with 20 Superbowl appearances and 12 wins. (12-8) That’s almost twice as successful as the rest of the conference NFC West (6-4) NFC North (5-4) NFC South (2-3). The AFC East (7-10), North (7-5), South (2-3) West (6-5). > [@Hamlet](#): > > To the plethora of people, yes, I am completely aware that the term “America’s team” came from NFL films. Which is why I said: “Any team that has the audacity to **market itself** as “America’s team” deserves an owner like Jerry Jones”, rather than “Any team that has the audacity to **name** itself …”. > > And if you come in to try and convince anyone that the Cowboy’s don’t “market” themselves as America’s team, I suggest you check out the Dallas Cowboy’s “official” team history, a book which I’m guessing you could guess the title. [Here it is](http://www.amazon.com/Americas-Team-Official-History-Cowboys/dp/160887009X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352293343&sr=8-1&keywords=america%27s+team). Nice backtrack. The book is weak. Now if you really wanted to prove Dallas markets itself as America’s Team, why not start at their [merchandising website](http://www.shopcowboys.com/catalog/categoryinfo.aspx?filter=&search=americas+team&type=q&keywordoption=&cid=125&fltrdesc=)? In truth, Dallas being billed as America’s Team was a result of their marketing since the reasons given for the term being coined was the visibilty of their merchandise in every city their played and their National TV exposure. > [@](#): > > Bob Ryan, now Vice President and editor-in-chief of [NFL Films](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Films), coined this for the Cowboys while preparing and editing the team’s 1978 season highlight film.[[6]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America's_Team#cite_note-5) He was quoted as saying: > [INDENT]I wanted to come up with a different twist on their team highlight film. I noticed then, and had noticed earlier, that wherever the Cowboys played, you saw people in the stands with Cowboys jerseys and hats and pennants. Plus, they were always the national game on television. > Ryan told the NFL Network, for their Top Ten Nicknames show: > I saw all these fans in away stadiums. Hey, they’re the most popular team in the country. How can I use that? Why don’t we call them “America’s Team”? [[1]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America's_Team#cite_note-NFL_Network-0) [/INDENT] ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-9/639782/114 "2012-11-07T13:52:07Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > :dubious: > > The Giants have won two Super Bowls in 4 years. That’s the new definition of “suck”. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-9/639782/115 "2012-11-07T14:20:10Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > Nice backtrack. In what kind of world is repeating the exact same thing you said earlier, backtracking? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-9/639782/116 "2012-11-07T14:35:27Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > In what kind of world is repeating the exact same thing you said earlier, backtracking? The same world where the NFC East is the most overrated division in all of football, of course. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-9/639782/117 "2012-11-07T17:35:47Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > :dubious: > > The Giants have won two Super Bowls in 4 years. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didnt the Giants win both Super Bowls with a 9-7 record, one was as a wild card, amd one was a divisional champion? Over-rated means just that. It doesn’t mean the division could not have a super bowl winner. The division itself. Its the same thing every year… The Redskins have a great team, because Snyder brought Shanahan in to coach his overpaid free agents, the Eagles were going to have magical seasons two years in a row., the Cowboys are picked to win the SB by some nut every uear, and the Giants, who since they are in NY, are hyped to death. Yes, i know they won 2 SB’s… No small feat. But if you remember, they just squeeked into the playoffs the first year as a six seed and got on an amazing roll. I remember distinctly that year that if the Giants didnt make the playoffs, Tom Coughlin was fired. The second super bowl run was similar. They win the division with 9 wins and get hot. Don’t get me wromg, i think the Giants have a good team. But they are far from great. They ARE however, the class of that division, which is weak. How about the NFC North? They have Chicago, Green Bay, and Detriot, and Minnesota isn’t as bad as people thoight they’d be. A much better division. I knew it wouldnt take long for folks to point out the Giants, but they are just one team in that division. See the difference? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-9/639782/118 "2012-11-07T18:53:59Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but didnt the Giants win both Super Bowls with a 9-7 record, one was as a wild card, amd one was a divisional champion? > > Over-rated means just that. It doesn’t mean the division could not have a super bowl winner. The division itself. Its the same thing every year… The Redskins have a great team, because Snyder brought Shanahan in to coach his overpaid free agents, the Eagles were going to have magical seasons two years in a row., the Cowboys are picked to win the SB by some nut every uear, and the Giants, who since they are in NY, are hyped to death. Yes, i know they won 2 SB’s… No small feat. But if you remember, they just squeeked into the playoffs the first year as a six seed and got on an amazing roll. I remember distinctly that year that if the Giants didnt make the playoffs, Tom Coughlin was fired. The second super bowl run was similar. They win the division with 9 wins and get hot. Don’t get me wromg, i think the Giants have a good team. But they are far from great. They ARE however, the class of that division, which is weak. > > How about the NFC North? They have Chicago, Green Bay, and Detriot, and Minnesota isn’t as bad as people thoight they’d be. A much better division. > > I knew it wouldnt take long for folks to point out the Giants, but they are just one team in that division. > > See the difference? As someone pointed out upthread, historically speaking (I know, “Not For Long” league) the NFC East has been the _best_ division. _Ever_. I do agree about the Cowboys and the hype. I don’t think anyone was expecting much of the Redskins this season as they are rebuilding. The Eagles until very recently were an excellent team year in and out (just not winning the big one). Also, it doesn’t really matter what a team’s record is as long as they make the playoffs, right? Why, I recall a certain team in the 2005 playoffs that as a wildcard squeaked into the playoffs and found itself winning a Super Bowl that year. I wonder what team that was? If you’re talking strictly about this season only, then maybe. I don’t think anyone thinks the NFC East is the best division in football _right now_. ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-9/639782/119 "2012-11-07T19:12:18Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but didnt the Giants win both Super Bowls with a 9-7 record, one was as a wild card, amd one was a divisional champion? > > Over-rated means just that. It doesn’t mean the division could not have a super bowl winner. The division itself. Its the same thing every year… The Redskins have a great team, because Snyder brought Shanahan in to coach his overpaid free agents, the Eagles were going to have magical seasons two years in a row., the Cowboys are picked to win the SB by some nut every uear, and the Giants, who since they are in NY, are hyped to death. Yes, i know they won 2 SB’s… No small feat. But if you remember, they just squeeked into the playoffs the first year as a six seed and got on an amazing roll. I remember distinctly that year that if the Giants didnt make the playoffs, Tom Coughlin was fired. The second super bowl run was similar. They win the division with 9 wins and get hot. Don’t get me wromg, i think the Giants have a good team. But they are far from great. They ARE however, the class of that division, which is weak. > > How about the NFC North? They have Chicago, Green Bay, and Detriot, and Minnesota isn’t as bad as people thoight they’d be. A much better division. > > I knew it wouldnt take long for folks to point out the Giants, but they are just one team in that division. > > See the difference? The Giants were 10-6 in 2007. But you can’t just downplay a championship when looking at divisional strength. The 2010 Packers were 10-6. The defending champion LA Kings were a #8 seed. The 2006 St. Louis Cardinals were 83-76. All won the championship. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-9/639782/120 "2012-11-07T19:28:17Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > As someone pointed out upthread, historically speaking (I know, “Not For Long” league) the NFC East has been the _best_ division. _Ever_. > > I do agree about the Cowboys and the hype. I don’t think anyone was expecting much of the Redskins this season as they are rebuilding. The Eagles until very recently were an excellent team year in and out (just not winning the big one). > > Also, it doesn’t really matter what a team’s record is as long as they make the playoffs, right? Why, I recall a certain team in the 2005 playoffs that as a wildcard squeaked into the playoffs and found itself winning a Super Bowl that year. I wonder what team that was? > > If you’re talking strictly about this season only, then maybe. I don’t think anyone thinks the NFC East is the best division in football _right now_. I will go bqck to that post to see how they measured the nest division of all time. If it is just based on SB wins, maybe they are, i dont really know. That was the Steelers that pulled the first sixth seed to SB CHAMPION trick. Interesting note, they are still the only tewm that beat the tip three seeds in their own conference on the road to make it to the SB, then neat the number one seed from the other conference. But because of this, i didnt proclaim the AFC North to be the best conference in football, even though they have two SB rings. Just like the Giants. Honestly the biggest reason for the NFC East hype is because of a few very clear reasons. 1) it has a NY team in the division. It happens to be the old NFL Giants, not the AFL Jets. 2). The Dallas Cowboys are also in the division. The Cowboys, like it or not are still a very popular team and a successful brand for the NFL. So much so that when the great re-alignment happened a few years ago, Dallas remained in the NFC East, instead of being shifted to perhaps the South. Atlanta certainly is a better fit for the NFC East, but the boys in NYC didnt want that, and the Cowboys didnt want that either. 3) it’s control of some of the largest media markets in the country. So there you go. The creation of a great conference by way of external factors. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-9/639782.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-9/639782.md?page=7)